Gar and PH/Gh/KH... What do you keep yours at?

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
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Apr 28, 2009
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So w/ all the issues I've been having i'm starting to wonder if one of / the root cause is my PH/gh/kh... when we brought everyone over from my parents house (8.0 ph/gh/kh off the charts 2 yrs and they where all healthy as horses during this period) we acclimated everyone and they where doing quite well.. Now we are in 7.5 ph gh/kh we have not yet been able to test/measure. But our fish keep passing something around.. I've lost a ray and a spiney eel to this.. and each gar now has had cloudy eyes at one point or another ( Kanaplex soaked smelt have worked well in clearing it up) But it just keeps circulating and i'm concerned long-term use is going to cause kidney damage ect to them.

I know our Cuban would appreciate a higher PH/gh/kh ( The tropicals have been most effected, but I think it has to do w/ the stress of new owners/tank-mates/ect. )... I would go with crushed coral in our sump.

I am curiouse what other people keep their gar at/in long-term?.... generally sensitivity to changes in water are bad for most fish, i'm beginning to wonder if the higher ph/gh/kh levels ( generally easier to stabilize) are better to house them in, in general. Within' reason of course.

Thoughts?
 

jpcampbell123

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Feb 18, 2011
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In the water
i added ro right to my tanks to help had a bad experience with dechlorinator before so i started using only ro di water on all my tanks. kept my gars around 7.2- 7.5
 

Polypterus

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Generally most gar are very adaptable to a wide range of pH and hardness / alkalinity, but they do not do so well when it is quickly changed. This is especially true of the Atractosteus species. Cubans in particular are really fussy. It could be that your current water source lack in Buffering and you are getting swings in the pH because of it. I would highly suggest you get a reading on it and add some argonite to the filter to counter act it. Our water here in Detroit is incredibly stable, pH of 7.8 and total hardness of 136 Carbonate at 90, it also has a high number of trace minerals and a moderate salinity to it. only problem with it is out of the tap the Chlorine / chloramine levels can be through the roof so it always takes some aging or de-gassing to be safe for fish. Standard de-chlor really does not do the job 100% all of the time.
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
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Apr 28, 2009
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Thanks Richard and this is exactly what I suspect.. the first i'de say 2monthes everything has been fine since we moved the fish.. but its been a uphill fight the past month or 2.. ( we've gotten a lot of rain ect so I'm assuming our water plant working extra hard ect. on the list of calls to make and things to do)

I've always used crushed coral to buffer PH. Is there really much of a difference between that and the sand? I'de simply prefer to put a bag of CC in my sump then deal with sand ( sand already destroyed our original pool liner, and I know telling hubby we need to add sand again will put him threw the roof lol.) I want to do whats BEST... not what "may get the job done" as that always leads to issues tomorrow instead of today so if there really is a big difference in the buffering qualities I'll figure out the sand dilemma...

Medicating has been helping.. but its not fixing the problem just putting a bandage on it... I swear things like this happening to people is what gets a lot of people out of this hobby... and on one hand I can't blame them. Seems no matter what we're doing it just keeps coming back.. and we've dumped hundreds now into improving their care, and I've spent hours reading threw forum posts and googling.. and talking to the lfs... I know if we don't find the "root" the fish will ultimately wither away... I've seen this happen before. A whole tank die off.. and at the end your still scratching your head going WTF? /rant off!
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
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Thanks Richard and this is exactly what I suspect.. the first i'de say 2monthes everything has been fine since we moved the fish.. but its been a uphill fight the past month or 2.. ( we've gotten a lot of rain ect so I'm assuming our water plant working extra hard ect. on the list of calls to make and things to do)

I've always used crushed coral to buffer PH. Is there really much of a difference between that and the sand? I'de simply prefer to put a bag of CC in my sump then deal with sand ( sand already destroyed our original pool liner, and I know telling hubby we need to add sand again will put him threw the roof lol.) I want to do whats BEST... not what "may get the job done" as that always leads to issues tomorrow instead of today so if there really is a big difference in the buffering qualities I'll figure out the sand dilemma...

Medicating has been helping.. but its not fixing the problem just putting a bandage on it... I swear things like this happening to people is what gets a lot of people out of this hobby... and on one hand I can't blame them. Seems no matter what we're doing it just keeps coming back.. and we've dumped hundreds now into improving their care, and I've spent hours reading threw forum posts and googling.. and talking to the lfs... I know if we don't find the "root" the fish will ultimately wither away... I've seen this happen before. A whole tank die off.. and at the end your still scratching your head going WTF? /rant off!
 

Polypterus

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Aug 17, 2005
2,839
8
68
49
Detroit
Thanks Richard and this is exactly what I suspect.. the first i'de say 2monthes everything has been fine since we moved the fish.. but its been a uphill fight the past month or 2.. ( we've gotten a lot of rain ect so I'm assuming our water plant working extra hard ect. on the list of calls to make and things to do)

I've always used crushed coral to buffer PH. Is there really much of a difference between that and the sand? I'de simply prefer to put a bag of CC in my sump then deal with sand ( sand already destroyed our original pool liner, and I know telling hubby we need to add sand again will put him threw the roof lol.) I want to do whats BEST... not what "may get the job done" as that always leads to issues tomorrow instead of today so if there really is a big difference in the buffering qualities I'll figure out the sand dilemma...

Medicating has been helping.. but its not fixing the problem just putting a bandage on it... I swear things like this happening to people is what gets a lot of people out of this hobby... and on one hand I can't blame them. Seems no matter what we're doing it just keeps coming back.. and we've dumped hundreds now into improving their care, and I've spent hours reading threw forum posts and googling.. and talking to the lfs... I know if we don't find the "root" the fish will ultimately wither away... I've seen this happen before. A whole tank die off.. and at the end your still scratching your head going WTF? /rant off!
First key thing you need to do is document the Total hardness and Buffering.. See if there is a swing in it from water change to water change, Take a weeks worth of tests and see if fluctuations are occurring. Crushed coral will work just as well as Aragonite but I just tend to prefer Aragonite for buffering when needed. It tends to be more soluble and quicker in entering into solution. Pretty much swear by it in mixing with the regular substrate for Atractosteus. A fine mesh bag in the filter may be just as useful.
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
6,048
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Wisconsin
120/80 ish ( So about middle of the ground on the color scales) Ph 7.5 range.. That at 5 days after the last 50% wc... refilling it now and will test it and the tap itself once it's full. took me 3 stores to find a gh/kh test yesterday and even then its the api dip strips. also picked up a 5lb bag of aragonite sand.. could only get the CC in 20lb bags.

My parents house has well and had off the charts gh/kh and ph sat at 7.8 ... Just gotta find a mesh bag I like and the plan is to put it in the base of our sump that's 100% submerged but is in the direct flow line of the filter. Since these guys spent the last 2yrs in hard as rocks water I'm thinking that the gh/kh itself being raised is only going to help.

And atm the Big trop has a cloudy eye but its more that it's hazed over then looking actually infected. The rays, and catfish are all acting normal or better. But realistically doing 50% wcs every 3-5 day on a 1 k system isn't going to work long-term.. particularly since nitrates barely show by the end of those 3-5 days. So things are better now... but its the upswing of the rollercoaster. Also not sure if its the new liner making the difference as well or just the increase in water changes ( we where doing them every 7 days longest they went was 9)

Also got the new pump and hopefully will have it plumbed in by tonight and running to increase the over-all flow.
 
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