Chinese soft shell turtle with rays

jim barry · Nov 5, 2013

Posted the following in the 'Other pets' forum as I could not find a part of this web site relating to Turtles only, but I am not getting any response. I know from experience that you guys out there have some stories (and facts) to supply about turtles, so I figure I should post this in this section of the site as well. Hope to get some responses and more importantly, advice. Thanks in advance.
Hi all

Hope someone can help me or point me in the right direction. I have a Chinese soft shell and have owned it for just over a year. It has grown from about 1.5" to nearly 12" in that time. I have recently decided it is a female as it has a short tail. But i would like to know if this is correct, how can you sex a turtle? I read the shorter the tail then it is female, but i have nothing to compare it with.
I keep the turtle in a 9x4x2 tank that is well over filtered. He/she is in with 5 rays and other fish. All have grown up together and all get on fine. Turtle eats like a pig everyday which obviously explains the growth rate. He gets a balanced diet of prawn, mussel and turtle sticks for added vitamin, also eats sturgeon pellets.
I want to know how essential is it that the turtle gets to bask. When it was smaller it had a basking spot and lamp as it was kept in my sump that has a nursery area. It never once used the basking spot. Now the turtle is in the main tank and has been for over 8 months, it has no basking spot. I have got it out a few times and placed it in container with shallow water under a UVB bulb to allow the shell to dry. But you can tell the turtle does not enjoy this as i am removing it from it's normal environment. Question - do i really need to do this if i am supplementing the diet?
Lastly. If this is a female, will she need to leave the water to lay eggs?
I and the family love this turtle. But i understand i need to do what is right for it. If it is a female and it needs to leave water i will have to sell it. But i want to avoid this if i can. Unfortunately i have no other way of providing a basking spot or indeed land for the turtle. I have read what i can find on the net and get some different opinions. Just read the care sheet on 'The Turtle source' and there is no mention of this turtle needing to leave the water.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice. I will post pics if needed.

Aw3s0m3 · Nov 5, 2013

I have never personally kept a Chinese softshell but I've had Florida softshells and I believe that it is always good to have one just so the turtle can come out if it wants to. If it is a female, you don't really need to worry about it laying eggs since there is no male to fertilize them. I've never had a line female of any turtle lay eggs without a male present. As for basking, doing what you're doing is fine for getting the turtle the required UVA and UVB rays that it needs to get vitamin D. I would recommend doing that once or twice a week for about an hour each so that it can get unfiltered natural sun.

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scott s · Nov 5, 2013

Sounds like things are going well. The UV light or calcium dust with vitamin D3 is essential to prevent MBD. Not sure if basking is absolutely necessary as some turtles only come out of the water to lay eggs. Ask a zoo for their opinion. I know female reptiles can absorb eggs, but sometimes this can become an issue if the eggs do not dissolve.

aquaman45 · Nov 6, 2013

jim barry said:
Posted the following in the 'Other pets' forum as I could not find a part of this web site relating to Turtles only, but I am not getting any response. I know from experience that you guys out there have some stories (and facts) to supply about turtles, so I figure I should post this in this section of the site as well. Hope to get some responses and more importantly, advice. Thanks in advance.
Hi all

Hope someone can help me or point me in the right direction. I have a Chinese soft shell and have owned it for just over a year. It has grown from about 1.5" to nearly 12" in that time. I have recently decided it is a female as it has a short tail. But i would like to know if this is correct, how can you sex a turtle? I read the shorter the tail then it is female, but i have nothing to compare it with.
I keep the turtle in a 9x4x2 tank that is well over filtered. He/she is in with 5 rays and other fish. All have grown up together and all get on fine. Turtle eats like a pig everyday which obviously explains the growth rate. He gets a balanced diet of prawn, mussel and turtle sticks for added vitamin, also eats sturgeon pellets.
I want to know how essential is it that the turtle gets to bask. When it was smaller it had a basking spot and lamp as it was kept in my sump that has a nursery area. It never once used the basking spot. Now the turtle is in the main tank and has been for over 8 months, it has no basking spot. I have got it out a few times and placed it in container with shallow water under a UVB bulb to allow the shell to dry. But you can tell the turtle does not enjoy this as i am removing it from it's normal environment. Question - do i really need to do this if i am supplementing the diet?
Lastly. If this is a female, will she need to leave the water to lay eggs?
I and the family love this turtle. But i understand i need to do what is right for it. If it is a female and it needs to leave water i will have to sell it. But i want to avoid this if i can. Unfortunately i have no other way of providing a basking spot or indeed land for the turtle. I have read what i can find on the net and get some different opinions. Just read the care sheet on 'The Turtle source' and there is no mention of this turtle needing to leave the water.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice. I will post pics if needed.

Hi Jim,

I have kept many species of exotic freshwater Turtle throughout my life inc Mata mata, Alligator snapping turtles, Florida soft shells and indeed the species you have Pelodiscus sinensis. I have a friend at work that has kept this species for 20 years on and off, he still has 3 stunning specimens today. His or mine were never keen on getting out of the water, many amphibious Turtles such as Maps, yellow bellies, red eared to name just a few do require a hot spot and UV like the lads have already pointed out but I have found this along with the Fly river Turtle (C.insculpta) to be very much an aquatic creature with only females leaving the water to deposit their eggs.This is not to say males will "never" leave the water to occasionally bask I'm sure they will, though my findings are they won't suffer in captivity if they don't.
Check out the feet, they are very webbed compared to the other more commonly kept species above which points to a far more aquatic existence, they also have a very long neck which is designed to shoot out at lightening speed to take small fish whilst hiding in the mood (ambush predator), this neck is quite a weight to carry around without the support of the water around it, its all about attention to detail, I use the expression a lot.
These Soft shells are very prone to fungal infections as juveniles and indeed can get them as adults too. Now again through many years of experience we have found that keeping these reptiles on a sand substrate helps no end, they love to bury themselves beneath it, this naturally cleans the surface of the shell and keeps them healthy, this is a must in my opinion.
Feed a well balanced diet of Pellets, fish, Shellfish etc and they do well, Reptomin sticks are very good for them, these have most if not all the vitamins and other supplements they need.
Getting back to the egg laying subject. These Turtles will produce and lay eggs with or without a male present, I have witnessed this several times, they also lay a lot depending on size of the female, these are scattered all over the tank so you could wake up to a mess one day.
Personally Jim I wouldn't keep any Soft shell turtle with Fish..period! These animals have a terrifically powerful bite which can remove the end of a child's finger with ease, a friend of mine had a 2" piece taken from his hand whilst picking his up, it scarred him for life, with their flexible muscular neck they can bite from any angle.
You can't trust a predatory turtle anymore than a venomous Snake, one day it will turn and when it does and it happens to be your prized Rays just remember I did warn you!

I'm sorry to put a downer on it Jim, I love these Turtles also, so much character, get her another tank, I say her as your right, a short tail usually indicates a female.

All the best mate.

jim barry · Nov 6, 2013

aquaman45 said:
Hi Jim,

I have kept many species of exotic freshwater Turtle throughout my life inc Mata mata, Alligator snapping turtles, Florida soft shells and indeed the species you have Pelodiscus sinensis. I have a friend at work that has kept this species for 20 years on and off, he still has 3 stunning specimens today. His or mine were never keen on getting out of the water, many amphibious Turtles such as Maps, yellow bellies, red eared to name just a few do require a hot spot and UV like the lads have already pointed out but I have found this along with the Fly river Turtle (C.insculpta) to be very much an aquatic creature with only females leaving the water to deposit their eggs.This is not to say males will "never" leave the water to occasionally bask I'm sure they will, though my findings are they won't suffer in captivity if they don't.
Check out the feet, they are very webbed compared to the other more commonly kept species above which points to a far more aquatic existence, they also have a very long neck which is designed to shoot out at lightening speed to take small fish whilst hiding in the mood (ambush predator), this neck is quite a weight to carry around without the support of the water around it, its all about attention to detail, I use the expression a lot.
These Soft shells are very prone to fungal infections as juveniles and indeed can get them as adults too. Now again through many years of experience we have found that keeping these reptiles on a sand substrate helps no end, they love to bury themselves beneath it, this naturally cleans the surface of the shell and keeps them healthy, this is a must in my opinion.
Feed a well balanced diet of Pellets, fish, Shellfish etc and they do well, Reptomin sticks are very good for them, these have most if not all the vitamins and other supplements they need.
Getting back to the egg laying subject. These Turtles will produce and lay eggs with or without a male present, I have witnessed this several times, they also lay a lot depending on size of the female, these are scattered all over the tank so you could wake up to a mess one day.
Personally Jim I wouldn't keep any Soft shell turtle with Fish..period! These animals have a terrifically powerful bite which can remove the end of a child's finger with ease, a friend of mine had a 2" piece taken from his hand whilst picking his up, it scarred him for life, with their flexible muscular neck they can bite from any angle.
You can't trust a predatory turtle anymore than a venomous Snake, one day it will turn and when it does and it happens to be your prized Rays just remember I did warn you!

I'm sorry to put a downer on it Jim, I love these Turtles also, so much character, get her another tank, I say her as your right, a short tail usually indicates a female.

All the best mate.

Wow! Very informative response Richard. Really appreciated, thank you!. I am feeding the Reptomin sticks you talk about daily along with mussel and prawn. She takes the sticks from my fingers. Had a pinch once but only ever felt the soft lips around the beak apart from that. You leave me in a real dilemma. I totally take on board what you are saying. It will break my kids hearts if I sell her BUT it will crush me if the turtle hurts one of the rays. Don't have another tank and if ever I do get another it will be to put the rays in for rest periods (or more rays!). Guess I am going to have to think seriously about selling her one day. For now I just can't bring myself to do it. I came close a while back when I knew I was going to add another 2 rays to the tank. Even put the turtle up for sale but no takers. So I put her behind a divider to allow the new addition rays to settle. Now they are all together again and all feed together every day like one big happy family. Hard to think the turtle could cause any damage when you observe how she is with the other tank occupants, but I guess it is like a alasatian dog as they have the reputation of suddenly turning on people/owners as they get older. Thanks again for the great reply Richard.

-DC- · Nov 6, 2013

I also keep a variety of turtle species and agree 100% with aquaman45.

This species will rarely leave the water to bask, possibly never a basking spot is not required and forcing it out to dry out is unnecessary and stressful for them. Females will leave to lay eggs though and it's not a bad idea to offer this laying area for mature females to limit the risk of them becoming egg bound. Females will produce eggs no matter what and in most cases will lay them in the water if no laying area is available, however they can/will try to hold off on laying for as long as possible if there is no suitable area for the eggs which could lead to problems.

Also as for sexing, yes females have a significantly smaller and shorter tail then males and this is typically the easiest difference to spot. They also grow faster & larger then males. If you can get a pic I can confirm the gender for you though.

aquaman45 said:
Hi Jim,

I have kept many species of exotic freshwater Turtle throughout my life inc Mata mata, Alligator snapping turtles, Florida soft shells and indeed the species you have Pelodiscus sinensis. I have a friend at work that has kept this species for 20 years on and off, he still has 3 stunning specimens today. His or mine were never keen on getting out of the water, many amphibious Turtles such as Maps, yellow bellies, red eared to name just a few do require a hot spot and UV like the lads have already pointed out but I have found this along with the Fly river Turtle (C.insculpta) to be very much an aquatic creature with only females leaving the water to deposit their eggs.This is not to say males will "never" leave the water to occasionally bask I'm sure they will, though my findings are they won't suffer in captivity if they don't.
Check out the feet, they are very webbed compared to the other more commonly kept species above which points to a far more aquatic existence, they also have a very long neck which is designed to shoot out at lightening speed to take small fish whilst hiding in the mood (ambush predator), this neck is quite a weight to carry around without the support of the water around it, its all about attention to detail, I use the expression a lot.
These Soft shells are very prone to fungal infections as juveniles and indeed can get them as adults too. Now again through many years of experience we have found that keeping these reptiles on a sand substrate helps no end, they love to bury themselves beneath it, this naturally cleans the surface of the shell and keeps them healthy, this is a must in my opinion.
Feed a well balanced diet of Pellets, fish, Shellfish etc and they do well, Reptomin sticks are very good for them, these have most if not all the vitamins and other supplements they need.
Getting back to the egg laying subject. These Turtles will produce and lay eggs with or without a male present, I have witnessed this several times, they also lay a lot depending on size of the female, these are scattered all over the tank so you could wake up to a mess one day.
Personally Jim I wouldn't keep any Soft shell turtle with Fish..period! These animals have a terrifically powerful bite which can remove the end of a child's finger with ease, a friend of mine had a 2" piece taken from his hand whilst picking his up, it scarred him for life, with their flexible muscular neck they can bite from any angle.
You can't trust a predatory turtle anymore than a venomous Snake, one day it will turn and when it does and it happens to be your prized Rays just remember I did warn you!

I'm sorry to put a downer on it Jim, I love these Turtles also, so much character, get her another tank, I say her as your right, a short tail usually indicates a female.

All the best mate.

FishDog · Nov 6, 2013

I had a male frt with my rays, he was about 12" front to back and it was a disaster. He was cool for a couple of weeks then he started by nipping at the rays tails which then turned into disk edges. He shredded 4 rays that were 13-14" in a matter of a couple of days. I will never EVER put a turtle in with them again.

doyboy · Nov 6, 2013

Got to say jim I had a soft shell with sum of my rays, in the 18 months I had him he never used his platform that I built for him he was 100% all the time in the water, never had any issues with him with any of the fish or rays then bang one evening I found him hanging on the a rays tall, lucky no major damage but I couldn't trust him after that. As aquaman said there jaws are really powerful and hate to think the damage he could of done. It is a combo that I reckon if your lucky can work out but the risk are just to high for me.

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yargnits · Nov 8, 2013

i would never consider putting a soft shell with a ray. i think you are asking for trouble if you do. ive kept a couple when small and they are particularly aggressive imo. most ive seen get the fungus problem that aquaman pointed out and tbh i was under the impression that a uv basking spot was a good way to help prevent this.
there was a soft shell in my local pet store it wanted to eat you if you went near the tank and they fed it mice they also said they wernt looking forward to getting it out of the tank (however i think it came to an untimely end from the dredded soft shell fungus before they had chance to loose a finger.

i was told they breed them in china to make soup. so if it gets too big at least you have options ;D

jim barry · Nov 12, 2013

-DC- said:
I also keep a variety of turtle species and agree 100% with aquaman45.

This species will rarely leave the water to bask, possibly never a basking spot is not required and forcing it out to dry out is unnecessary and stressful for them. Females will leave to lay eggs though and it's not a bad idea to offer this laying area for mature females to limit the risk of them becoming egg bound. Females will produce eggs no matter what and in most cases will lay them in the water if no laying area is available, however they can/will try to hold off on laying for as long as possible if there is no suitable area for the eggs which could lead to problems.

Also as for sexing, yes females have a significantly smaller and shorter tail then males and this is typically the easiest difference to spot. They also grow faster & larger then males. If you can get a pic I can confirm the gender for you though.

Hi here is a picture. Can you confirm if this is female?
Thanks


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