Of life, lizards, and nonprofits...

kittyhazelton

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jan 25, 2007
693
0
16
Upper Valley VT/NH
I am not going to lie... the last couple of weeks have been "chaotic" to say the least. Unexpectedly the primary heating system for the "reptile room" failed... not once, but TWICE resulting in the emergency move of a large number of animals to the homes of my volunteers (and every nook and cranny of my house that was available) as we faced sub-zero temperatures here in northern NH. I've been feeling a bit frustrated... but not beyond hope that things are going to be getting fixed.
Per my earlier thread on the introduction of "Chocmo" the alligator into my collection of animal ambassadors l have also been partnering with a good friend of mine who runs a well-established wildlife educational organization for the construction and space-allocation of habitats for not only our animal ambassadors, but also for the rescue.
Their current facility houses everything from snakes, lizards, fox, birds, alligators, and even an african crested porcupine and lemurs! In addition, some of their volunteers are jumping on-board as additional fosters for UVRG. So we will not be limited by "in-house" space for the rescue "pets" once things are flowing smoothly. A majority of my own animals and those within the rescue are being moved there, with space dedicated specifically to them in order to meet their individual habitat needs.
As I am going to be overseeing the new enclosure construction, and gathering ideas on how to overcome the challenges that running a reptile rescue in the northeast in the middle of winter presents.. I will likely be putting out feelers to some of the "big dogs" here on building materials, lighting, construction, and other factors to take into account. The "Zoo people" have been good resources, but we are operating on a private budget & I think when it comes to DIY & saving money, nobody knows how to do it better than private hobbyists.
Much of the work to be done will happen after the holidays, you can expect some pictures when it starts!
 

aldiaz33

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 19, 2007
2,312
214
296
Bay Area
That's a bummer that the heater went out. Glad to hear nobody froze.

Here are some pix of the American Alligator enclosure at Steinhart Aquarium at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco. If I had to guess, it's about 50' x 75' with approximately 25,000G of water. This setup probably cost north of a quarter million, but I'm sure you can do it for much cheaper ($30,000 to $40,000) if you don't have a viewing panel and make it smaller.

They maintain the water at 78F via a huge boiler; they have a plate heat exchanger on the return line after the filtration. They run a huge sand filter powered by multiple (IIRC) 1HP pumps. Ballpark figure for running the pumps and the heater is at least $600/month, perhaps a little more in the winter...that's with pretty mild SF winters where anything below freezing in the winter is unusual.

Building multiple upgrades as Chocmo grows is going to be a lot more expensive in the long run than just building his "forever" enclosure up front.

So what's the budget for these enclosures?

Looking forward to seeing your progress on the build. :thumbsup:

Albino Alligator at Steinhart.jpg

Albino Alligator2.jpg

Albino Alligator at Steinhart.jpg

Albino Alligator2.jpg
 

kittyhazelton

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jan 25, 2007
693
0
16
Upper Valley VT/NH
Something along that is pretty close to whats in mind!!! (Sans of course the "prettiness" of public viewing windows or a glass tank) We figured, probably in the ballpark of $30k-$40k for a reasonable alligator enclosure depending on size & building materials... There are a few contractors who also regularly donate materials/labor towards the wildlife org, so some costs may be cut there, if we can manage to keep the cost under $20k with copious "donations" of materials, and a lot of hands-on work ourselves that would be ideal, but gotta do what's necessary to make it happen... of course, the "summer" outdoor enclosure would be nowhere near that cost. (Essentially, a chain link fence around a large dug-in pond on the property.) Over the next year there are a few fundraisers being put in place, and we have a person applying for grants as well... of course, per-enclosure is nowhere near the overall amount that the facility costs... don't get me started there.

This is no longer "my project" as there are forces in place building on an idea and helping it to grow... however it is really fantastic being a part of it and I'm happy that I can share it with you guys :)

That's a bummer that the heater went out. Glad to hear nobody froze.

Here are some pix of the American Alligator enclosure at Steinhart Aquarium at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco. If I had to guess, it's about 50' x 75' with approximately 25,000G of water. This setup probably cost north of a quarter million, but I'm sure you can do it for much cheaper ($30,000 to $40,000) if you don't have a viewing panel and make it smaller.

They maintain the water at 78F via a huge boiler; they have a plate heat exchanger on the return line after the filtration. They run a huge sand filter powered by multiple (IIRC) 1HP pumps. Ballpark figure for running the pumps and the heater is at least $600/month, perhaps a little more in the winter...that's with pretty mild SF winters where anything below freezing in the winter is unusual.

Building multiple upgrades as Chocmo grows is going to be a lot more expensive in the long run than just building his "forever" enclosure up front.

So what's the budget for these enclosures?

Looking forward to seeing your progress on the build. :thumbsup:
 

Edwardo

Candiru
MFK Member
Feb 2, 2010
230
2
48
NJ
I am not going to lie... the last couple of weeks have been "chaotic" to say the least. Unexpectedly the primary heating system for the "reptile room" failed... not once, but TWICE resulting in the emergency move of a large number of animals to the homes of my volunteers (and every nook and cranny of my house that was available) as we faced sub-zero temperatures here in northern NH. I've been feeling a bit frustrated... but not beyond hope that things are going to be getting fixed.
Per my earlier thread on the introduction of "Chocmo" the alligator into my collection of animal ambassadors l have also been partnering with a good friend of mine who runs a well-established wildlife educational organization for the construction and space-allocation of habitats for not only our animal ambassadors, but also for the rescue.
Their current facility houses everything from snakes, lizards, fox, birds, alligators, and even an african crested porcupine and lemurs! In addition, some of their volunteers are jumping on-board as additional fosters for UVRG. So we will not be limited by "in-house" space for the rescue "pets" once things are flowing smoothly. A majority of my own animals and those within the rescue are being moved there, with space dedicated specifically to them in order to meet their individual habitat needs.
As I am going to be overseeing the new enclosure construction, and gathering ideas on how to overcome the challenges that running a reptile rescue in the northeast in the middle of winter presents.. I will likely be putting out feelers to some of the "big dogs" here on building materials, lighting, construction, and other factors to take into account. The "Zoo people" have been good resources, but we are operating on a private budget & I think when it comes to DIY & saving money, nobody knows how to do it better than private hobbyists.
Much of the work to be done will happen after the holidays, you can expect some pictures when it starts!
When I redo my large monitor lizard cage, Im definatly putting in a radiant floor heating system. Either the electric type, or the hydronic, hot water running through pipes controlled by a boiler. This type of under the floor heating has many advantages, especially if you live in a colder climate or in a tall cages, that run from floor to ceiling, the ground will be your #1 enemy as far as the cold goes.
 

kittyhazelton

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jan 25, 2007
693
0
16
Upper Valley VT/NH
Excellent suggestion. I imagine in the long-run this will be the most cost-efficient heating system for the new building structure... the alligator is not the only thing requiring the warm temps that will need to be accounted for.
Speaking of monitors... with your experience, what type of enrichment items have you used in order to keep yours happy and active? There is a water monitor at the facility who could use some improvements to his routine, and I've been curious what sort of enrichment type items/games/etc. could be incorperated that would help exercise that velociraptor-like mind.

When I redo my large monitor lizard cage, Im definatly putting in a radiant floor heating system. Either the electric type, or the hydronic, hot water running through pipes controlled by a boiler. This type of under the floor heating has many advantages, especially if you live in a colder climate or in a tall cages, that run from floor to ceiling, the ground will be your #1 enemy as far as the cold goes.
 

Edwardo

Candiru
MFK Member
Feb 2, 2010
230
2
48
NJ
Excellent suggestion. I imagine in the long-run this will be the most cost-efficient heating system for the new building structure... the alligator is not the only thing requiring the warm temps that will need to be accounted for.
Speaking of monitors... with your experience, what type of enrichment items have you used in order to keep yours happy and active? There is a water monitor at the facility who could use some improvements to his routine, and I've been curious what sort of enrichment type items/games/etc. could be incorperated that would help exercise that velociraptor-like mind.[/QUOTE

I really cant say weather or not it would be the most cost efficient in your situation, because it sounds like your trying to heat a whole building/structure? Im only heating 1 room size encloser in my basement. You might want to do a radiant floor heating search, (they do have pics of people doing hugh areas) or see what some HVAC contractors in your area have to say.

The system is controlled by a thermostate, and Im told, when done right, it will be the only type of heat you will need, aside from the basking spots.

Keep in mind that larger monitors/crocodilians spend most of their time close to, or on the ground.
 

chairman

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
May 27, 2011
63
0
36
Corydon, IN
On the summer enclosure for the alligator, gators can scale chain link fences. Saw it myself a time or two as I was growing up in FL. Certianly saw it on the local news more than once. You need to have a solid wall for the first 6' or so, then maybe chain link above that. Concrete block or an exceptionally sturdy wood fence would work best for the bottom. I'd also put a chain link fence around your enclosure wall, maybe with a 6 foot path between it and the wall just-in-case.
 

aldiaz33

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 19, 2007
2,312
214
296
Bay Area
Chairman's post got me thinking, do you have liability insurance that would cover you if something tragic were to happen? If the gator ends up maiming a little kid you could get taken to the cleaners. I like his idea of the double fence; you not only want to keep the gator in, but you also want to keep kids/people out.
 

Edwardo

Candiru
MFK Member
Feb 2, 2010
230
2
48
NJ
You also have to make sure that the animal cannot dig its way out of the encloser, the wall or whatever you decide to do, will need a solid footing at least 18" into the ground.
Large lizards and such that are exposed to mid day summer sun and heat, that are also senseing a little freedom, might surprise you on how differently they can act outside, as oppose to inside, usually until they realize that their not getting out.

Your outdoor cage HAS to be 110% escapeproof.
 

kittyhazelton

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jan 25, 2007
693
0
16
Upper Valley VT/NH
Chairman's post got me thinking, do you have liability insurance that would cover you if something tragic were to happen? If the gator ends up maiming a little kid you could get taken to the cleaners. I like his idea of the double fence; you not only want to keep the gator in, but you also want to keep kids/people out.
Yup.. part of the requirements for our licensing is liability insurace. $1m per incident liability policy. The double fence will actually be required should the property ever be open to the public... and the point about climbing is a new one, have seen the chain link used at a few facilities... but there may have been additional safety items in place aside from that... much research to do. The entire property where the facility is located currently has an 8' solid privacy fence around 75% of the outside perimeter... perhaps the solid-sided fence will be the way to go.
 
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