Separating and re-introducing males and females

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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I am keeping 3 leo rays, 2 female and 1 male. They are all right around the 14 inch disc mark. Over the last month and a half I noticed my males claspers really starting to develop, got a lot bigger and starting to roll nicely. I introduced the most recent female about 2.5 months ago and maybe its the hormone thing that triggered it, or maybe just his time. Anyway the new female is separated right now because she's healing from a nice big bite the male (I am 90% sure) put on her hip. The male never bothered the other female because she is super dominant...till recently. 2 weeks ago I saw a similar bite on the females hip just not as big. Now every morning I see a new scratch around the disc of the dominant female, even 2-3 places where tiny 1mm chunks are missing from the disc. She is still dominating him all the time so I haven't moved her with the other female yet, I am waiting for the day I wake up and there's a pretty bad bite on her because ideally I don't want to move her. Best guess of her age would be 16-17 months. I feel like it's inevitable that the male will have to be on his own eventually, because I tried re-introducing the other female once already and he messed her up after 2-3 weeks again.

To get to the point, the male is obviously maturing, but at 14 inches and 1.5 years I don't feel like the females are ready just quite yet. So my questions:

1) Is keeping the male separate from the females for a period of time prone to make him more aggressive on re-introduction, as in should I actively try to get them to live in peace together and risk him beating them up?

2) What would you guys suggest a good process/time/disc size of re-introduction for them to start breeding is considering there are no visible signs of maturity on a female? My fear is if I re-introduce them too early they are going to continually get beaten up without the possibility of breeding, I know there is no hard and fast rule I am just looking for your suggestions or what has worked for you.

3) Am I thinking too much into this and should I just separate as needed based on damage to the females individually and just let nature take its course?

Let me know your experiences with this, it's all new to me.

Thanks.
 

Gumby79

Candiru
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Apr 23, 2006
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As males mature there kind of like dumb teenagers, it just takes time for them to mellow and figure it out.
 

Dieselhybrid

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Mar 31, 2010
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I am wondering the same things. Males seem to really beat down females, do you guys just let them stay together? Possibly until you confirm pregnancy then separate them? Always keep them together and things get better?

Thoughts? Experiences?
 

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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I don't think I'll be able to keep em together for much longer, will probably separate as a precaution this weekend water change, just because the dominant female keeps getting new small bites on her and shes only 12 inches and for sur enot ready yet, and I reintroduced the other one last weekend and so far so good but found a small nip this morning so It's only a matter of time, better safe than sorry, just wish I knew when to introduce him again so as not to make it pointless beating on them.
 

Dieselhybrid

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I have heard that breeding is nearly always full of bites, scrapes and damaged discs on females. But at what point is too much is the question. They heal quickly but surely you don't want them enduring that the whole pregnancy. I wonder if there is a method of reintroducing that will limit the damage, or other techniques.
 

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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Yea, I mean separating them after pregnancy is all well and good, I just really want to know people's methods of re-introducing after separation to achieve breeding, in the sense that I'm guessing the "deprived" male will go crazy for them right away, so really want to know how people re-introduce them when there are no visual signs of maturity on a female, is it all guess work and trial and error? Or should I try to keep the male with them as long as possible to reduce the agression?
 

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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Separated the male as a precaution. Kind of sad as the smaller female misses him I think. Never had a large ray before, only a mature teacup, but I think his claspers are awfuly close to fully rolled, I didn't want to wake up one morning to a large chunk missing out of either female.

Now my question becomes a bit more important to me, when should I try re-introducing the male back in with the two females? The smaller more dominant one is only 11inches across, and the larger is 13. Are talking trial and error? Half a year? Wait till 16 inch disc? Try keeping em together once the females scratches heal up? Really just want peoples experience here as I know there are no hard and fast rules.
 

Dieselhybrid

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are there other fish in the tank too? I had a buddy tell me that keeping surface (aro) fish and other fish in the tank can distract the males and make them settle down a bit and not focus on just the females. If the females are too young to breed the males can get really rough with them and impatient. Also during the reintroduction phase, at first it seems like the males are always pretty rough. After they get used to one another again, they'll usually calm down a bit.
 

burbon44s

Candiru
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May 13, 2012
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Op: how big is your tank?
Maybe females need more room to get away. Also, I use big 14 inch clay pots for my females to escape to if my male tries to mess with them. He doesn't follow.
Your females are probably going to take at least another year before they're ready to spawn so this could cause a lot of stress

Sent from my DROID4 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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My tank is 7x2x4 wide, 400 gal system. There is only one other inhabitant, a black arowana.

By the way, woke up this morning and I don't know how, somehow someway the original female got around the divider and ended up with the male. My girlfriend thought it was cute, she was acting like she missed him the entire time separated (at the divider with him, digging to try to get under). Now I have to deal with the task of trying to separate the two again which is a pain.
 
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