90g Planted cichlid tank setup questions

TheLorax

Gambusia
MFK Member
Aug 6, 2011
108
0
16
Houston, TX
Hi. This will be my first planted tank so maybe I am being too ambitious. I got a new 90g and some large driftwood, and I'm getting ready to order the following:

Marineland aquatic plant LED
Fluval FX6
Eco complete + estes black aqua sand

Stocking ideas:
Pair of rainbow cichlids
Pair of dwarf pikes
Chocolate cichlid
Blue acara
Group of orange head geophagus


I've been leaning towards a non-CO2 setup but will that much light cause algae? I'm not totally opposed to adding CO2, but I don't want a jungle since I'm planning on having geophagus as part of my stock and I want some clear sand areas with just a decent amount of hardy plants. I read about drilling holes in slate to hold plants down when stocking eartheaters, anyone try that? I also want to stick with LED so I can place it on top of my glass top rather than screw it onto the sides like all the T5s I've seen.

Anyways, if someone could give me some ideas on lighting/plant species for this type of setup that would be awesome. I am set on cichlids though, so please don't recommend just doing a rainbow tank.

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LS2012

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 24, 2013
782
3
33
Northern NJ
Hi, I'm not an expert, and I'm not going to say just do rainbows! There are many others who have far more experience and I'm sure they'll chime in as well.

I'm just saying in advance, Geos are very, very, very challenging in planted tanks. They uproot plants and will rescape your Eco/sand borders. The sand will eventually sink below the eco, but Geos will dig that up too. Also be prepared for a lot of trial and error with the types of plants you'll be able to keep. Your fish may have different ideas about where things should be located.

Here's a thread on my latest update. http://monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570098 There are more threads on the tank in this forum that include some of my challenges and plants that survived or didn't.

My 110g tall is a SA cichlid planted tank. I have a pairs of Australoheros Oblongum, Hypselacara Temporalis (chocolates), Bujurquina sp. Para Brazil (acara family), a group of Geo.Red Head Tapajos and an L240. I've never kept pikes so I can't comment on them.

As my first pt, I decided to go with low tech, no co2 just because I was afraid of overdosing, harming my fish and frankly don't know enough about it. There are 2 other lights you may want to consider, Finnex planted + or Finnex Ray2, depending on your desired lighting level and plants. I also have Eco complete with black sand. Here's how I set up the sandy areas for my geos in the beginning http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...n-My-First-Planted-Tank-Ideas-For-Improvement

In the beginning, the terracing was great and the borders helped my geos to have separate areas of sand. That didn't last too long, and they started uprooting and spitting everywhere constantly. If you look closely at the recent pics, you'll see I have rocks placed around the stem areas of my plants, that works for my tank. I'm not sure drilling slate is necessary when you can just add inert rocks. The plants they've left alone are Willow hygros, Giant Hygro, Wendtii, Vals and Anubias. The plants they've decimated are Water sprite, water Lettuce, wisteria, swords, st. Elmo's fire and more I can't remember right now. I'll be adding more plants soon based on recs from hybridherp. Don't forget about pothos roots in the tank, F1 has a great sticky on this in the diy filter section.

All that aside, I love my cichlids, esp the geos :) they all look great and are quite amusing. Although its always a challenge, I really enjoy the way my tank is constantly evolving. Have patience and it will pay off!

Hope this helps & good luck!
Laurie




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HybridHerp

Fire Eel
MFK Member
May 18, 2012
1,192
86
66
New York
Hello, I think I am about to be your saving grace, as I am another madman who does cichlids and planted tanks.

Here are my two immediate thoughts about your plan though, that light is not going to be super great for what you want. LED's are nice and all, but on a tank that wide you're going to need more than one LED fixture if you plan on having more than the back or front half of your tank get light...plus, I'm not sure the PAR on that fixture but I know the price on it is pretty high. I use a 4 bulb T5HO...it has legs so it works totally fine and all, but I can't recommended more than maybe two bulbs to you, as any more will be too much light and require you to have co2.

You'd be better off getting something with a known PAR value, but even then...you're going to have some thinking to do for sure and money will be a bit of a factor.

My next concern, is more on the fish side. And this might be funny coming from me (see my 75 tank) but I'm not too sure that stock list will fit well in only a 90. Specifically, I question your chocolate cichlid and geos. I think the chocolate gets too big to be with that many other fish in a planted tank (its movements in the smaller space will uproot just about anything accidentally imho) and assuming a group means 6+....that's a lot of larger (the orange heads get like 6"+ yah?) cichlids at one time. Also, not a problem but a thing to think about, them rainbows might annoy the **** out of you, cause depending on mood they will be anything from black to bright yellow, and their behavior changes pending on if breeding mood or not. Also, could never get mine to leave wisteria alone...only plant they've outright eaten on me.

If I were you, I'd stick to no more than 6 cichlids, all under 6" in size if possible. That's what I do and what I think works best for this situation. So from your current options, I'd say that means the rainbows x2, dwarf pike x2 (idk much about these but always wanted some), and then two other cichlids. I'd say just do two or the orange geos (assuming they are about 6" full sized) and you'd be fine. Of course, another thing to note is that you will be wanting to have tetras or something to be schooling around these cichlids. I feel that cichlid tanks work better if there are other, smaller grouping fish to distract the cichlids and all.

As for your equipment and tech, I already mentioned lighting, but what lighting you do end up with depends heavily upon if you go co2 or not. If you did co2, you'd need a pressurized setup for a tank that large, and that gets costly. But, you can then have high light and grow more or less anything (that the fish let you of course....I suggest planting and growing the plants out for maybe a month or so before adding the fish...might have you a few headaches). Of course, you can opt to not do co2 and do a lower lighting level instead, and still have it work. My friend LS2012 is keeping a medium light 110 with cichlids that is looking pretty nice, and I'm keeping a high tech 75 with cichlids that she says is looking nice and I think needs a ton of work :p

Your substrate is fine, but just realize you are going to need a lot of substrate whatever you do. My 75 took 8 bags of eco-complete...that was some expensive stuff too T_T

Idk about your filter brand, but I recommend you double it with another filter. With heavy cichlid loads its always a good idea, and if one filter malfunctions at least the other is working. Its also good to double filter when dealing with things like running heaters and stuff inline. You might also want to get power heads to increase your flow in the tank, but that would be determined after you add the hardscape and all and notice deadspots or something.

On the plant side of things though, you're going to need to research fertilizers and co2 and planted tank lighting extensively though.
 

LS2012

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 24, 2013
782
3
33
Northern NJ
One more thing.... Pls post progress pics :)

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TheLorax

Gambusia
MFK Member
Aug 6, 2011
108
0
16
Houston, TX
Thanks for the advice, guys! I am liking the idea of the Finnex Planted+, I could get two for the price of the marineland fixture. I'm just worried about the stupid screw-on mounts. Is it possible to take the legs off and put in on directly on the glass top? I've tried making a custom acrylic top once, and I hated that thing. Your tank looks great, Laurie! I'm not sure I understand how you did the terracing with the egg crate and mesh, but I'll do some more research on that. I was thinking about planting with little sections of egg crate so that I could easily un/re-plant small areas if something goes wrong. As far as stock, I figure the chocolate will be okay because the one I had before stayed at the surface looking for insects all the time, and I've read that this is common chocolate behavior. I know stocking all the rest is a real long shot, especially with the rainbows, pikes, and geos all probably tending towards the bottom of the tank. I thought maybe each pair could take a corner and breed and the geos could occupy the free-sand center (a man can dream). I've kept heckellis before and I guess they would make a good compromise since they don't dig like true eartheaters and are beautiful in their own right, but red heads have been my favorite fish to keep and I only got to have them for like 6 months before I moved. I might only get one pike, but I'll probably attempt the rest of the stock. I am prepared to get another filter once the fish grow out a bit. And yes, I plan on getting a group of tetras for schooling fish. My other concern is algae-eaters. My BNPs cleaned all the algae off my old(fish-only) tank's rocks in one day, but I'm thinking of trying something different , like corys or ottos, since I plan on breeding at least one species and I'm worried about them eating eggs. But that's more fish tending towards the bottom, right?

I will post lots of pics! Here's the first one, just my driftwood so far.
20140212_194537_resized.jpg

20140212_194537_resized.jpg
 

HybridHerp

Fire Eel
MFK Member
May 18, 2012
1,192
86
66
New York
I'm going to respond in this color

Thanks for the advice, guys! I am liking the idea of the Finnex Planted+, I could get two for the price of the marineland fixture. I think two planted + might make you hit high light range. I suggest maybe doing just one planted + or two fugerays (two fugerays will have better spread). I'm just worried about the stupid screw-on mounts. The screw on mounts are fine. I use them for my 10 gallon. They hold up well. Is it possible to take the legs off and put in on directly on the glass top? Yes but, you'd increase the lighting level, which is fine but if you go too high with PAR you'll get algae (unless you go co2) I've tried making a custom acrylic top once, and I hated that thing. Your tank looks great, Laurie! Her tank does look great :D I'm not sure I understand how you did the terracing with the egg crate and mesh, but I'll do some more research on that. I was thinking about planting with little sections of egg crate so that I could easily un/re-plant small areas if something goes wrong. As far as stock, I figure the chocolate will be okay because the one I had before stayed at the surface looking for insects all the time, ​My concern was more the fact that its just a large fish, not so much where in the tank it hangs around. Also note sure if chocolates will actively eat plants or not and I've read that this is common chocolate behavior. I know stocking all the rest is a real long shot, especially with the rainbows, pikes, and geos all probably tending towards the bottom of the tank There is a guy on youtube ADU aquascaping that has 2 red head geos in a high tech planted 40. I thought maybe each pair could take a corner and breed and the geos could occupy the free-sand center (a man can dream) Fish will dig up where they want to dig up. My rainbows decided to dig up where I wanted crypts...stopped though cause the male realized the female was ignoring him so he gave up. I've kept heckellis before I keep them with my plants, they are awesome and I guess they would make a good compromise since they don't dig like true eartheaters and are beautiful in their own right, but red heads have been my favorite fish to keep and I only got to have them for like 6 months before I moved. I might only get one pike, but I'll probably attempt the rest of the stock. I am prepared to get another filter once the fish grow out a bit. And yes, I plan on getting a group of tetras for schooling fish. My other concern is algae-eaters. My BNPs cleaned all the algae off my old(fish-only) tank's rocks in one day, but I'm thinking of trying something different , like corys or ottos, since I plan on breeding at least one species and I'm worried about them eating eggs. But that's more fish tending towards the bottom, right? Cories are cool, but don't eat algae. Ottos are kinda small to be with cichlids. I'd stick with bristle nose plecos (I have L144 myself, but super reds are something I might try and get, there's a lot of varieties of BNP.

I will post lots of pics! Here's the first one, just my driftwood so far.
View attachment 989469
 

jeremoose

Candiru
MFK Member
Aug 10, 2011
599
2
48
Canada
As someone who also keeps cichlids in a planted setup, the most important thing you can do is let your plants get set before you add the cichlids. If your plants aren't established they will become floaters really quick. Just my 2 cents.

P.S. I have several of the Finnex fixtures and they're fantastic.

P.P.S. I had a similar stock in my first 90g which was nowhere near large enough, so I upgrade them to a 150g... Which was nowhere near large enough. So now they're in a 240g.
 

LS2012

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 24, 2013
782
3
33
Northern NJ
As someone who also keeps cichlids in a planted setup, the most important thing you can do is let your plants get set before you add the cichlids. If your plants aren't established they will become floaters really quick. Just my 2 cents.

P.S. I have several of the Finnex fixtures and they're fantastic.

P.P.S. I had a similar stock in my first 90g which was nowhere near large enough, so I upgrade them to a 150g... Which was nowhere near large enough. So now they're in a 240g.
Excellent points! Finnex lights are fantastic & giving fish more room is always a great reason to get bigger tanks/more plants. If I had waited longer than a week to start swapping filters and introducing fish my life would have been soooo much easier!

That brings up another point, when adding Eco complete to the new setup, I also waited to introduce fish because I was concerned about starting a mini cycle, even with established canisters.

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LS2012

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 24, 2013
782
3
33
Northern NJ
Lets see if can reply in purple. Sorry in advance if I make a mess of this post.....

Thanks for the advice, guys! I am liking the idea of the Finnex Planted+, I could get two for the price of the marineland fixture.
I think two planted + might make you hit high light range.I think it will too. I suggest maybe doing just one planted + or two fugerays (two fugerays will have better spread). I'm just worried about the stupid screw-on mounts. The screw on mounts are fine. I use them for my 10 gallon. They hold up well. Is it possible to take the legs off and put in on directly on the glass top? The use of the mounts is optional. Theyre included as speparate pieces. I attached them to the light and have the fixture placed on top of the glass covers. The mounts were wide enough to screw onto my tank with the lip on the rim. Yes but, you'd increase the lighting level, which is fine but if you go too high with PAR you'll get algae (unless you go co2) I've tried making a custom acrylic top once, and I hated that thing. Your tank looks great, Laurie! Her tank does look great :D Thanks!I'm not sure I understand how you did the terracing with the egg crate and mesh, but I'll do some more research on that. I was thinking about planting with little sections of egg crate so that I could easily un/re-plant small areas if something goes wrong. As far as stock, I figure the chocolate will be okay because the one I had before stayed at the surface looking for insects all the time, ​My concern was more the fact that its just a large fish, not so much where in the tank it hangs around. Also note sure if chocolates will actively eat plants or not My chocolates dont bother the plants and they swim all over the tank. While there only about 4.5 inches now, they're known to be gentle giants. Mine swim and hover at odd angles all the time. I was worried something was wrong, but have since learned through researching the species further that's common behavior for them. I've read that this is common chocolate behavior. I know stocking all the rest is a real long shot, especially with the rainbows, pikes, and geos all probably tending towards the bottom of the tank There is a guy on youtube ADU aquascaping that has 2 red head geos in a high tech planted 40. I thought maybe each pair could take a corner and breed and the geos could occupy the free-sand center (a man can dream) Yes, thats a nice dream ;-) Fish will dig up where they want to dig up. My rainbows decided to dig up where I wanted crypts...stopped though cause the male realized the female was ignoring him so he gave up. I've kept heckellis before I keep them with my plants, they are awesome and I guess they would make a good compromise since they don't dig like true eartheaters and are beautiful in their own right, but red heads have been my favorite fish to keep and I only got to have them for like 6 months before I moved. I might only get one pike, but I'll probably attempt the rest of the stock. I am prepared to get another filter once the fish grow out a bit. And yes, I plan on getting a group of tetras for schooling fish. My other concern is algae-eaters. My BNPs cleaned all the algae off my old(fish-only) tank's rocks in one day, but I'm thinking of trying something different , like corys or ottos, since I plan on breeding at least one species and I'm worried about them eating eggs. But that's more fish tending towards the bottom, right? Cories are cool, but don't eat algae. Ottos are kinda small to be with cichlids. I'd stick with bristle nose plecos (I have L144 myself, but super reds are something I might try and get, there's a lot of varieties of BNP.

I will post lots of pics! Here's the first one, just my driftwood so far. Very nice driftwood. You're tank is going to be great!!!!!

Edit, I meant to say the mounts were NOT wide enough to use the screws
 
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