confused

fishonfishonfish · May 15, 2014

ok, so when i set up my pond last year i knew very little about xl fish, I have kept cichlids all my life but never any over 18 inches due to aquarium sizes. When i went to stock my pond i wanted to do some bigger fish so i headed down to my LFS to get some, little did i know that while i researched temperment, size, and diet of the fish i wanted i failed to master one importent part, identifying juviniles, long story short one of my "jaguars cichlids" is a dovii, and my p.bass is a red bay snook. So heres what imma do im going to list my current stock with my planned revisions, and i want you guys to tell me if it will work,

Pond: 26x11x2.5 + decor = 4000g
stock:
2 oscars
1 JD
1green terror
1 jaguar cichlid, i thought i had 2

1 dovii
1 red bay snook

1 florida gar
2 needle fish
3 plecos
and for feeder fish i have,
convicts
ghost shrimp
guppies
and some gouramis because i wanted some color on top
so my plan is to get rid of the dovii and replace it with a peacock bass, and then a friend of a friend is giving me his red bay snook, so take out the dovii and put in another red bay snook and a P. Bass. Will this work? or is it to crowded

piranhaman00 · May 15, 2014

Not even close to too crowded with adequate filtration. There are people that have similar stocks in tanks not near that large.

I really like the stock but I would add more pbass and a few bigger cats. I think you have a room for a few more large fish if thats what your looking for but keeping the pond lightly stocked will obviously cut down on maintenance ect.

screaminleeman · May 15, 2014

The needle fish will be a snack for any true adult gar (Even Florida's).

The cichlids will eventually stress the Florida Gar to at minimum break it's back.

I am not sure about the compatibility of the remaining cichlids minus the Dovi however.

fishonfishonfish · May 15, 2014

well actually in a pond setting aggression isnt nearly as much an issue as in an aquarium, the cichlids dont bother the gar at all, sometimes i look over and the snook, oscar, and jd will be swimming together (the oscar and jd are best of friends) and the gar will join in for a bit sometimes ( same with needle fish ) and the needle fish are both 12 inches at only a year 1/2 old. the gar only eats things smaller then 1/3 the size of him so the needle fish are off them menu. i was more concerned with swimming room then aggression/ predetory behavior, but haman raised a very good point with people keeping more then that in like 1,000g aquariums. btw how is a gar going to breaks it back in a pond 26x11 feet wide? with soft walls (pond-liner over sand) not saying its impossible just very unlikely if they ever did show aggression.

screaminleeman · May 15, 2014

fishonfishonfish said:
well actually in a pond setting aggression isnt nearly as much an issue as in an aquarium, the cichlids dont bother the gar at all, sometimes i look over and the snook, oscar, and jd will be swimming together (the oscar and jd are best of friends) and the gar will join in for a bit sometimes ( same with needle fish ) and the needle fish are both 12 inches at only a year 1/2 old. the gar only eats things smaller then 1/3 the size of him so the needle fish are off them menu. i was more concerned with swimming room then aggression/ predetory behavior, but haman raised a very good point with people keeping more then that in like 1,000g aquariums. btw how is a gar going to breaks it back in a pond 26x11 feet wide? with soft walls (pond-liner over sand) not saying its impossible just very unlikely if they ever did show aggression.

I did not bother to take grotesque pictures, but a couple of resident snapping turtles in my farm pond have found it incredibly easy to break (and devour) Florida Gars.

I have lost 14 of them so far.

This is in a spring fed pond well over 100' across and dredged 12 feet deep around a decade ago. Silt has no doubt "lined" the pond with "soft" debris.

I do wish you the best of luck however keeping Gar and cichlids together.

Perhaps you might want to browse the specialty Gar forum on this site. You will get nearly a 100% consensus DO NOT DO (Gar-Cichlid cohabit) advice from the experts.

I am not saying "don't do it". The true gar has a far different husbandry from the rest of your stock, and it might be well worth checking out this section for your Gars long term health, however.

pigoo · May 15, 2014

fishonfishonfish said:
...btw how is a gar going to breaks it back in a pond 26x11 feet wide? with soft walls (pond-liner over sand) not saying its impossible just very unlikely if they ever did show aggression.

One thing to watch out for with gar is...they like to jump. If one of the gar should get "startled" by one of the other fish (aggression)...with the speed they can generate...if they are near the edge of the pond...they may jump out. Then be stranded at the edge of the pond.

I'm not saying this WILL happen...just a possibility. I have "saved" one of my 4 gar (in an aquarium) about 5 times (same one). He has jumped out of my aquarium 5x. They are so skinny & powerful...that he somehow wiggles his way out. Even with full lids on the tank...AND fairly heavy rocks weighing down the glass aquarium lids. Crazy fish!

fishonfishonfish · May 15, 2014

the pond as a slight downwards tilt around the edges to prevent fish from getting stranded in case of floods, so if he jumps out he will flop back in. and i dont have snapping turtles in said pond. The gar is bigger then any other fish and will probably max out at around 28 inches from my guess, the next closest fish in size would be the p. bass and the snook which are both mild mannered, next in line is the jags and oscars, which are the only ones i worry about but still alot smaller then said gar and have not showed any signs of aggression. i am not saying that it will not happen but i am saying is that it is just as likely for the jag/oscar to kill the green terror or jack dempsy as it is for them to kill the gar. theres risk in any aquarium, i have had angels kill rams, and goldfish kill goldfish. No tank is without risk so i am no more concerned about my cichlids hurting my gar as i am concerned about my cichlids hurting my cichlids.

fishonfishonfish · May 15, 2014

one thing i was wondering though is how well a gar will do on a diet of convicts, ghost shrimp, and minnows/guppies. i cant starve him till he takes pellets/frozen since he can catch his own food. i know they like crustaceans so maybe get some crabs in there?, i also thought of crayfish but they are kinda destructive.

screaminleeman · May 16, 2014

fishonfishonfish said:
one thing i was wondering though is how well a gar will do on a diet of convicts, ghost shrimp, and minnows/guppies. i cant starve him till he takes pellets/frozen since he can catch his own food. i know they like crustaceans so maybe get some crabs in there?, i also thought of crayfish but they are kinda destructive.

I cannot tell you how much they love crayfish. Like you said, most local native crays are too dangerous. I found this "wonder of nature" that I simply knew was physically impossible to exist!

I did not believe, but have been pumping out self cloned Mokreb (Marbled crayfish) ever since buying my first (and only) batch.

They do exist, it is just a matter of finding a dependable vendor that is selling them. I have used 5 & 10 G tanks to clone them in. May be worth a try, but find someone here that is positive of a reputable dealer so you don't get stuck with grossly overpriced pinchers that someone grabbed from a sewage drainage.

I have 8 LNG that adore them.

You Florida folks are lucky. I have had so little success getting florida gar to adapt to the freezing MD. winters that I have all but given up. My LNG in my farm pond however has made it through it's second winter and is nearing the 30" mark. :headbang2

fishonfishonfish · May 18, 2014

hmmmm, i will definitely get on breeding some dwarf crayfish, although ive heard that marbles can destroy plants, would a different species of dwarfs a bit more plant friendly work just as good?


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