Juvenile Dorado Aggression Question

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davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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I have a salminus brasiliensis coming in at 4" this weekend. Main goal was a companion for my peacock bass to help socialize it and try to get it to eat stuff other than worms, wasn't overly interested in much else. Anyway, I am reading that it is pretty much hit or miss with these guys, either theyll be a-holes or theyll be fine. I am just wondering at what size do you guys see the aggression start? My bass is 5-6" now, I am thinking a fair size bigger than the dorado, but I of course heard that these guys can take on fish double their size easy enough. I just want the bass to get big enough to get into my 400 gal with some fairly big rays, and then I can deal with the dorado as needed. In your guys experience, at what size do they start becoming problematic? Does size even make a difference, as in is there a decent chance he'll start showing aggressive behaviour from 4-6" or whatever? Or is it more 12"+ that I should start keeping a closer eye. I am probably going to throw the bass in the 400 at about 8-10" depending on how much more confident he gets, so I don't have far to go. He's a pretty big wimp right now unfortunately, coming around lately though. Thanks.

P.s. As a side note, if anyone wants to comment on what size it is safe to throw my bass in with a 15" disc leo ray maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised or willing to do that sooner if the bass and the dorado don't get along.
 
DB junkie

DB junkie

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Did you read the sticky?

What you probably have coming is a mis ID'd Fransiscanus (Franky). Mine have all been significantly more aggressive then the true Brasiliensis.

They can be pretty aurnry even at small sizes. IF I was in your shoes I'd get something big in there before the Dorado arrives. IF the Dorado thinks it can "run" the tank it will begin claiming its territory and may come at the expense of a chewed up bass. However, it seems if there is a significantly larger fish in the tank that seems to put off the attempts at claiming territory. The much larger "peacekeeper" fish works best if it's a swimmer, something the Dorado will run into on a regular basis while it paces the tank.

15" black rays, I'd want that Dodo at least a foot before mixing.

Small tanks seem to help a bunch too. IF there's not a huge area to claim they seem less likely to be aggressive. I've had small groups try to shred each other in a 300 gallon, yet the same fish heal up and swim side by side in a 40 breeder, back to the 300 and all are shredded again in a day or 2. Seems it boils down to is this enough area that it's worth fighting for. IF it isn't they seem to peacefully coincide.
 
KNH

KNH

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My 2 cents... I love dorado but if you're just looking for a tank mate to help your bass then dorado may not be a very good choice. I've owned multiple dorado and previously they all started getting highly aggressive around 14" or so but my current dorado has been aggressive since day one when I got him at 5". You may get lucky and it work for you but I've found bass to be fairly mild mannered and easily dominated.

I also own 2 black rays about the size of yours and the dorado has been fine with them even when he was 5". I did have many mbuna in the tank at one point and the rays basically picked them off and never messed with the dorado. I also feed 1-2 times daily.

If you get the dorado post a pic. Good luck.
 
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davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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I read the sticky. Dorado is coming from wes so i'm not too worries about that. Just wanted ppls experience on aggression with small dorado. As for adding to the big tank, it's the bass i want to add not the dorado, I'm not looking to keep the dorado long term unless I end up liking it more than the bass. Thanks for the input.

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crenicichla444

crenicichla444

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davenmandy said:
I read the sticky. Dorado is coming from wes so i'm not too worries about that. Just wanted ppls experience on aggression with small dorado. As for adding to the big tank, it's the bass i want to add not the dorado, I'm not looking to keep the dorado long term unless I end up liking it more than the bass. Thanks for the input.

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The dorado I got from Wes looks to be a Frankie unless he specifically told you it's a brassy. Idk what to tell you with the bass though. I read almost every single one of db junkies posts about dorados back till 2009 (did my hmwk lol) because he posts a lot and definetly knows his stuff since there aren't really any solid articles on them. I put mine at 3 inches with 2 convicts and 2 fire mouths at 4 inches in a 40breeder and he wrecked them all in a matter of minutes prompting me to remove them. However as you already said you're not sure you want to keep it forever, mine has quickly become one of my most favorite fish and I will definetly consider upgrading to multiple hundreds of gallons instead of selling him off when he gets too large. I'm sure you'll love him. Post some pics up of him when you get him!


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DB junkie

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Wes brought in Brassies twice. Last few have been Frankies.

Who knows, maybe I just got a lucky coincidence that the 2 I have that tolerate each other are Brassies? Smart thing to do would be to track down Triggeraa and see what the location was of the 2-3 big, gold ones he had came from. This is the only time I've heard of multiple larger Dorado cohabbing....

Regardless of what they are, I think there's something to "peacekeeper" fish. One of the nicest Dorados I've seen on this site was raised with Aros without issue. Anyone remember Ageladay? Maybe that Dorado got big without being aurnry cause there was always a larger Aro in with it? H20 Mike's monster seemed to work with big Dats. I think it's key that the Dorado knows it's not capable of a tank take over. If they think they can maybe they will definitely try? In my tank the Dorado seem to be about the 4th species down in the pecking order. Maybe being that far down allows luck with mine being able to coexist and the species is just a coinky dink?

I must agree though, if open minded you may very well end up liking the Dorado even more then the Pbass. :) I think they're one of the neatest, most familiar with their surroundings, toughest, and craziest to feed preds you can put in a glass/acrylic box.
 
crenicichla444

crenicichla444

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DB junkie said:
Wes brought in Brassies twice. Last few have been Frankies.

Who knows, maybe I just got a lucky coincidence that the 2 I have that tolerate each other are Brassies? Smart thing to do would be to track down Triggeraa and see what the location was of the 2-3 big, gold ones he had came from. This is the only time I've heard of multiple larger Dorado cohabbing....

Regardless of what they are, I think there's something to "peacekeeper" fish. One of the nicest Dorados I've seen on this site was raised with Aros without issue. Anyone remember Ageladay? Maybe that Dorado got big without being aurnry cause there was always a larger Aro in with it? H20 Mike's monster seemed to work with big Dats. I think it's key that the Dorado knows it's not capable of a tank take over. If they think they can maybe they will definitely try? In my tank the Dorado seem to be about the 4th species down in the pecking order. Maybe being that far down allows luck with mine being able to coexist and the species is just a coinky dink?

I must agree though, if open minded you may very well end up liking the Dorado even more then the Pbass. :) I think they're one of the neatest, most familiar with their surroundings, toughest, and craziest to feed preds you can put in a glass/acrylic box.
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Agreed dorado are awesome fish, I will definetly give the larger tank mate method a try with some hampala barbs. Feeding time is gonna get wild forsure.

Last I saw of Triggerra, he got rid of two dorado and only has one at 20+ inches in a 220 gallon with a big WAL. Took years to reach that size. Part of the reasons why I got a dorado since they seem to do very well in aquariums. His big one is very gold in pictures so it's probably a lot more so in person.


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Chicxulub

Chicxulub

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I've seen that Wes tends toward calling all dorados brasiliensis, even if they are franciscanus. If he gets one of the 'real' brassys from Argentina, he makes a big deal about it and calls them Argentinean big-headed dorados.

I haven't been paying much attention to the Market lately though. Can anyone confirm that he's still doing this? Al?

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DB junkie

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Chicxulub said:
I've seen that Wes tends toward calling all dorados brasiliensis, even if they are franciscanus. If he gets one of the 'real' brassys from Argentina, he makes a big deal about it and calls them Argentinean big-headed dorados.

I haven't been paying much attention to the Market lately though. Can anyone confirm that he's still doing this? Al?

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Yup, he is. Believe me, I saw Brassies for cheap and he got an email real fast. He then confirmed the "Argentinian Big headed" ones had only been brought in twice. First batch sold for just shy of $400, second were quite a bit cheaper, but not sure if they were from the same location. Not sure if more were brought in and that dropped the price, or if the crazy priced first batch were just to be sure to recoop all the export paper work involved as the real big headed guys are under a quota, making them cost a lot more.

I'd love to know where Triggeraa's came from. I have a hunch they were probably caught pretty close to the ones we know as the Argentinian big heads. They always seemed to have a bit of a different look to them, and the fact he had multiple in the same tank at a large size????

One things for sure, Dorado used to be way more expensive then they are now. Why? Demand led to them being farmed. Farming lead to the bottom falling out price wise. Fish that were $200-300 were now $40-80. Farmed ones are Frankies. The wild caught ones that were over fished lead to a quota and in turn a very expensive fish. These are the true Brassies. Could this be the difference between silver Dorado and golden Dorado? That's what some of us have ponied up the loot for - to find out....... :)
 
Chicxulub

Chicxulub

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Well to be fair, adult wild caught members of both brasiliensis and franciscanus tend to be very yellow. I've not noticed a real difference in the color of the two.

A valid hypothesis could be native water quality as the two species come from different drainages. Frankies come from the tropical Amazon basin while the brassy is from various basins to the somewhat more temperate south.

I don't know off hand what the water quality is like in Uruguay and the surrounding regions, but there is a chance that it could be a good bit harder than the Amazon basin.

This would explain why your brassy colored up a bit better, he's comfortable in your liquid rock whilst the frankie's are somewhat stressed.

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