More still borns. What am I doing wrong?

I'm still having something going on in my biggest system. I've never had a successful litter on this system, yet have had other litters go just fine on the smaller systems.

I understand there's stress factors having predatory fish in with rays. That being said, as soon as I saw movement in the 2 CB Marbles I recently reaquired I moved them out of the 750 gallon display tank and they went into a 180 gallon tank that is on the same system. That 180 has 2 ac 110s on it and is also fed filtered water via 1K gph pump. This pump lies in a 300 gallon Rubbermaid which serves as the last part of the filtration, that pump sits by the 2 main return pumps (4.3K gph dart hybrids).

This system has a huge bio load on it, but I'm assuming the filter is more then adequate, but maybe it's not? The water from the 750 leaves that tank and goes through a pair of 55 gallon home made radial flow separators, after these the water goes to a 55 gallon tank holding 4 200/100 micron socks. From there half the water goes to a 90 gallon bio reactor (k1 and chips) the other half goes into the 2 bio tower reactors. There's an auxiliary 1K gph pump that feeds the bio tower portion of the bio tower reactors. Water is then returned through the 2 dart hybrids then through a pair of 110 watt UVs (1 per pump). Probably 4 cubic foot of k1 and 3/4 a cubic foot of chips. Probably 3 cubic feet of bio balls in the bio tower and a huge bag of rings (guessing 20 lbs) laying in the sump. There's a pair of Korilia Mag 8s for circulation in the 750 and another 1.5K gph in the 180. Ap 100 air pump runs this system with no air leftover.

The first female gave birth to what appeared to be a healthy pup. I left it in the 180 with the 2 females for 3 days as the female still looked preggo. That pup was then moved to the pup tank (independent 60 gallon) and died the next day. The other female gave birth this weekend. (roughly a month later) I was gone to a football game and came home to a curled pup.

I've watched the females on this system become pregnant - can see movement plain as day but yet they never have any pups. I lost my big girl 2 years ago on this system the day after she aborted 3 pups.

So- my thoughts are fluctuations causing the problems, but not sure if it's ammonia or what it is. PH swings are out. PH here never drops as its in the high 8s. This system is drip fed probably 200+ gallons a day - Nitrate is usually below 30 ppm. Have never seen any Nitrite.

Feeding is probably up to 2lbs/ feeding - daily feedings.

Stocklist -
Blackie trio (1@15" 2@12")
2 male Marbles (9 and 12")
4 lady Marbles (15", 13" 12" and 11")
2 13-14" Dorado
3 12-15" Armatus
1 13" VATF
3 Irwinni (18" 14" 10")
22" knife
20" Lacerdae
16"Aimara
12" Iguaza
2 8" tinfoils
8" brycon
2 7" sun cats

Now the same drip feeds the smaller systems. Similar PH. Only difference in this filter vs the one running the smaller one is turnover (smaller system has lower flow through the reactor)

I had the same issue in the last house I was in when I had a large pond set up. IF I ran a pup tank off the pond the pups died, but n independent tank led to success with pups. This leads me to think something is going on with swings involved with a heavy bio load.

Who has any ideas????? Would love to hear from you guys that aren't massively failing in the pup department....... Would greatly appreciate it.

I've reached out to several hobbyists, and keep hearing the same thing about keeping things simple, and less stocking, but my question is what exactly is happening here that is harmful to the pups?

IF it's ammo spikes then I should be able to grab an Apex and see a crazy hump on the ammo probe chart right?

IS there any chance that by dripping large amounts of water there's always enough ammonia left over from the carbon breaking down the chlorine that its harmful to pups yet doesn't show on an Ammonia test?

Or am I just way off on the whole ammonia idea?

The flow rate thing I find to be a mute point, cause just like UV slower flow rates don't mean more contact time cause higher flow rates offer more frequent contact time resulting in about the same as slowing it down. I had Ken crunch my UV numbers and I gained no more KJ/cm2 on the UVs by slowing flow so I assumed this would also hold true for the bio media.......

TDS incoming into drip filters is 240 ppm.

Conductivity (in ms)
750 = 626
180 off 750 = 628

smaller system (round 650 gallons) 680

4x3 (solo tank last successful CB pups were born in) 760

pup tank is a little over 1K.

vamptrev said:

Whats your conductivity and tds lookin like these days? I would bet this is the problem. I thought you were working on this?


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Tried....... Tap is wicked strong. No way to keep stable without pre mixing. NO room to premix. Plenty arguing no need to mix are making it justifiable to believe it's unnecessary.....

Prior to the 2 still borns 3 healthy pups from 2 different mothers were born on the smaller system. Both groups were kept with parents for up to a week before being moved. All healthy and eating well prior to moving, no males present. Currently doing great.