New tank, need filtration advice, 4 drilled holes and overflow wall

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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I just bought a 180 gallon bowfront, it is 72 long, 17 wide at sides and 24 in the middle, and 28 high. It came with a 35 gallon sump half filled with bio balls, with room for filter pads on top of the bioballs and sponges before entering the main chamber where the output pump would be. I need to really bulk up my filtration because it will be housing 3 large stingrays while I repair the tank they are in, and afterwards a large moray eel. There is an overflow wall in each back corner, and 2 holes drilled in each of these corners, I believe they are 1.75" and 1.25". It came with what I believe SW guys call "reef ready" overflow, essentially a tall piece of PVC bent 180 degrees at the top for water to come in. It was running on a mag9.5, 950 gph pump before I bought it. Glass is tempered, so I believe drilling it is out of the question, if I am wrong about that and there is a way I am totally willing to drill to make the overflows bigger. I am also willing to tear the overflow wall out. So... questions...:

First of all, is my sump big enough, or do I have to make a new sump? I feel like its on the small side, will I absolutely need bigger or can I make it work with some tweaking? Would simply adding an FX6 be better than redoing a new sump?

What can I do with my plumbing to ensure highest GPH turnover rate? I have no experience with overflow walls, I wonder if I should tear it down, I know GPH my system can handle is directly proportionate to the size of my overflows, so how can I maximise the output with my existing 1.75" drain holes? Do they need to be bigger, is there a way to make them bigger? What about the overflow itself?

Does anyone know how much the drains I have now can handle in terms of gph? The tubing that came with it from the barbs at the end of the holes into the sump were 1.25" for the drain and .75" for the output if I had to guess, didn't have a chance to measure them yet. Obviously it handled 950 GPH just fine, I really would like to double that if possible.

In the end, I just want to maximize what I have with filtration. I have about a month to get the tank in top notch shape before I have to start redoing my other seams, let me know what you guys think I can do, as I have never owned a tank with the overflows drilled in the bottom. Any resources I can look at that will help me understand the concept better?

Thanks.
 

davenmandy

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Feb 1, 2012
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Noone has any ideas for me? My only experience is with the holes drilled in the back panel and not the bottom, anyone have any suggestions on how to plumb this to allow for max turnover?
 

jsodwi

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You can run 2- mag9.5 pumps or 1 mag 18 35g sump will be fine. Pack it with the bio balls and some seachem matrix. Dump your heaters in there as well and you are good to go.
 

davenmandy

Peacock Bass
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Feb 1, 2012
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So you don't think I will need to adjust the plumbing for it to run 2x 9.5s? I will buy some seachem matrix and make best use I can of the sump, I will need a protein skimmer in there as well so space is becoming limited. 35 gallons is not ideal probably, but at least I can get it going adequately and upgrade as necessary slowly. Thanks for the input.

Edit: Wonder if I can get away with a mag12? Theyre not that much more expensive is only reason I ask, that could be pushing it based on the size of my drilled holes.
 

DB junkie

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How bout some pics? Can you flip it upside down and take some pics of the bottom?

Here's what I would do in your situation.....

IF you have a reef ready tank then you know the bottom isn't tempered. IF you have room it's possible to drill a larger hole right over top a smaller hole provided you've got a super steady hand or just use a jig. Jigs for glass hole saws are super easy to make, or cheap to buy. IF you can't come up with one I could mail you one if you mail it back. Once the holes get bigger you'll likely have to modify the teeth on the overflow. I just cut them out and replace with egg grate. I'd shoot for a pair of 2" drains and would use a Dart (3600-4300 gph) pump. I'd want to see at least triple the turnover the tank had before you got it.

3 rays means I need volume. I'd run a sump similar in size to the tank. A big ol Rubbermaid ag tub. 100 or 150 gallon.
 

davenmandy

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Feb 1, 2012
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Hey DB, Bottom is tempered for sure. Theres a sticker right on the bottom that said temperred glass, do not drill. I will post some pics when I clean everything up after work today, and I will get exact sizing of the holes. I am all for increasing turnover, but it looks like I will have to work within the confines of the existing holes, unless the sticker was just put there to prevent people from even trying. The bulkhead fittings will be my biggest reducer/bottleneck I feel. I will post pics tonight. The 3 rays will only be there for 2 weeks, may be an uncomfortable two weeks, but they should make it through it. I am equally as concerned about making this a stable system for a rather large moray eel, or 3 semi-smaller ones. Don't have the hugest budget in the world, but if I NEED a bigger sump to prevent future headaches I will figure something out. Who knows, maybe I can start with Barney if you still have him ;) Regardless, gotta figure out plumbing first.
 

DB junkie

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Barney's still here..... And is NOT happy in his 75.

I don't get how the holes got in the tempered glass? IF it was tempered wouldn't it break when they went to drill the holes that are already there?

IF sticking with current holes then I guess springing for a gate valve and running a full siphon style overflow (herbie, bean tickler, bean animal) may be the only option.

I know it's "only" 2 weeks, but how much would it cost to replace that trio?

As far as when it's a salt tank - I'm an overkill guy. Peace of mind is priceless. My current 200 gallon eel tank has a 8x2 footprint. I have probably close to 300 lbs of live rock in this system. I'd prefer to keep the sump packed and grow little stuff out in there, so IF I was to drop to a little sump then I loose grow out and the tank becomes a live rock tank which I'd loose my mind if I had to listen to them sea serpents toss tussle throw huck and tunnel that much rock around. The skimmer I use alone holds 30 gallons so when it comes to a sump I have to use a rather large one cause of the skimmer.

Will the current sump "work"? Sure. But I advise against "working" and prefer overkilling..... You asked for advice, not could I get by with....... ;)
 

davenmandy

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Feb 1, 2012
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I am pretty sure you can still get holes in tempered glass, I just think there is a different method of carefully "drilling" them in. All my research says it will "likely" shatter, which I take to mean its not impossible, but the likelihood increases when the average Joe Blow does it like me instead of a pro. I can do some more research into how to tell if glass is tempered, like I said maybe they just put the sticker on there to warn against people trying to DIY and just go to them for a new tank LOL.

And I know what you mean about the 2 weeks, I wouldn't be replacing anything if I lost these guys, only time youd ever see me is selling everything in the marketplace. I'm not trying to cheap out trust me, I am just working within the constraints of my abilities (I have my fair share of skills in life, unfortunately was not blessed with a steady hand and knowledge of construction) and unfortunately a budget, I imagine a good chunk of these issues would become non-issues if somehow my employer deposited an extra paycheque this month. Essentially just trying to make it the best I can, I have never made a sump, I am not saying I can't do it, I would love to try, I just have to consider stuff like cost of materials, and now that I am thinking about it, what I can actually fit underneath the stand. Oh, and of course there is the time issue, every minute is precious when you work 2 jobs, stay active, and balance all your other responsibilities. Last thing I want to come across is cheap though, not looking to save a nickel every corner here.

I'm also all for peace of mind, but my needs are a bit more simple than yours because I do not care for growing anything out in a sump because I only ever want 1-3 big (ish) eels. Ideally I want a pretty thick, aggressive guy that will be content with the unfortunate 17" ends this aquarium came with, oh and has to be pretty (not my request, guess whose...). Once this is done it's done, I don't want anymore tanks, don't want to grow anything else out, don't want to move anything, just want to maintain and better my current systems. Getting enough live rock in the tank and making room for the eels too may present an issue its true, a bigger chamber in the sump for it would be ideal. Who knows, maybe the tax pain this time around won't be so bad haha. Long story short, I'm happy with middle of the road in terms of quality right now, and then slowly upgrade to aim for top of the road. As long as it's not bottom of the road/questionable as to my pets survival, I can put the work in to better their circumstance slowly. But figuring out the plumbing is priority, with a helping hand like this forum I'm confident it will work out well.

Sorry for the little side bar, back to main topic, thanks for the input, I will consider everything said while I am working on this.

As soon as the tank is settled well talk about Barney lol.
 

Thekid

Potamotrygon
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Sep 18, 2014
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Barney's still here..... And is NOT happy in his 75.

I don't get how the holes got in the tempered glass? IF it was tempered wouldn't it break when they went to drill the holes that are already there?

IF sticking with current holes then I guess springing for a gate valve and running a full siphon style overflow (herbie, bean tickler, bean animal) may be the only option.

I know it's "only" 2 weeks, but how much would it cost to replace that trio?

As far as when it's a salt tank - I'm an overkill guy. Peace of mind is priceless. My current 200 gallon eel tank has a 8x2 footprint. I have probably close to 300 lbs of live rock in this system. I'd prefer to keep the sump packed and grow little stuff out in there, so IF I was to drop to a little sump then I loose grow out and the tank becomes a live rock tank which I'd loose my mind if I had to listen to them sea serpents toss tussle throw huck and tunnel that much rock around. The skimmer I use alone holds 30 gallons so when it comes to a sump I have to use a rather large one cause of the skimmer.

Will the current sump "work"? Sure. But I advise against "working" and prefer overkilling..... You asked for advice, not could I get by with....... ;)
Where did you get Barney at?

On the saltwater side my sump only houses my filtration socks, skimmer and return pump. Each person has different preferences and you should find what works for you.




Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

DB junkie

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Where did you get Barney at?
On the saltwater side my sump only houses my filtration socks, skimmer and return pump. Each person has different preferences and you should find what works for you.
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
Barney came from a shop up in the Minneapolis area. He was sold as a Fang tooth but I knew it was mislabeled. I also knew he was something I had never seen before, nor had I seen anything that looked like him in pics online at the time. I still to this day have not seen another in captivity. Not saying they aren't out there, but they (Gymnothorax Prionodon) sure don't seem all too common.

I do know there is no way I could have the group of eels I have without having the ability to "grow out". Barney would have been eaten immediately as he was acquired much smaller then the rest of the group and was grown out in a separate tank attached to the same system as the rest. IF you're content with a single eel then great, but even a similar sized pair may take housing one in a grow out situation for a while. Especially if looking for a counterpart that Barney wouldn't eat.

We definitely all do things differently. I keep large eels and would not rely on a lil skimmer that would fit in a little sump. Ever seen what a skimmer does after a 2+lb feeding?
 
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