IS THIS WHY MY STINGRAY DIED????

Mihajlo525

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 4, 2015
225
1
16
Canada
Hey guys, sadly my 5" wide reticulated stingray died over a week ago. I kept him in a 120 If you want all the details go to my first thread.> http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-and-I-feel-like-complete-garbage-PLEASE-HELP I would also like to thank EVERYONE on this thread for their help :). Anyways here's the situation, I fed him some blackworms and all my other fish (my Kelberi pbass some nightcrawlers and my Tiger oscar and two 7" goldfish cichlid pellets) And about 5/4 hours later he starts swimming to the top of the tank furiously and when he reached the top sometimes he'd float like a carpet, and it almost looked as if he was trying to escape the tank (he looked REALLY stressed), then I calmed him down to the bottom and he was breathing heavily and a couple minutes later he stopped and started having muscle spasms in his tail and mouth and then he sadly died. tankmates and temperature are already ruled out if you read the thread. So anyways After 2 water changes adding up to 35% (after he died and while he was freaking out) and two days later I did a nitrate test with a $50 test kit and it always measured 0.2 at highest and lower, (you could barely see a change in the water colour after tow minutes). I might as well tell you my filtration set up as well, a fluval 406 canister rared at 100 gallons, and two tetra HOB filters rated at 70 gallons each, The GPH rate is 1083GPH. Also my water was about 86 degrees. And now the critical part, I searched up the effects of ammonia poisoning in fish and it seemed very similar to what my stingray was doing (swimming to top of aquarium furiously and he might have been gasping for air). But the only thing that baffles me is wouldn't there be high levels of nitrates if there was any ammonia? Would only a 35% water change/substrate vacuum get rid of all the ammonia? And if so I don't really have the money or space to get a sump and definitely not the money to get a Fluval FX5 or FX6, so would a 1150gph powerhead and ,maybe some Java ferns solve my problem? The powerhead is a Hydor coralia evolution 1050/1150 GPH Circulation pump. PLEASE HELP I want to plan on getting another ray but not until I'm sure the environment is appropriate for it! THANKS IN ADVANCE :):):):):):)

Also here's a video of him eating black worms right out of my hand LITERALLY HOURS before he died....
[video=youtube;3KrgnSbntYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KrgnSbntYs[/video]
 

Joecool44

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 16, 2015
327
12
18
New Jersey
Ur temp might have been a tad high idk why but a lot of people are raising there temps with stingrays, they should be in 72-78 at the most ur filtration seems fine I think it was just the temp the only time it should be at 86 is if there is a ich prob and u are killing off the disease


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

predatorkeeper87

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,293
2,029
164
pennsylvania
you can have an ammonia spike without nitrates. That will happen on either new tanks with to many fish or an established tank that received a large bioload influx. That being said and me being too lazy to look at the other thread again, how old was the tank, and did you add some of the stock all at once recently?
 

george09

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 7, 2008
576
2
18
peterborough on
i havent read your first form but you said tank mates ruled out so there goes both the pleco and goldie. A few conserns here 86 is far to warm of ur in the red zone for tropical fish. However something similare happind to me when doing a watter change it turned out to be that the cities local water supply was being upgrated so the watter wasnt the same as they where used to. in the span of getting them used to it i lost a large 13 inch male a 28 in fire eel and 17 inch tiger. But lets say this is not the case as its winter time and weather in your area might be frozen. with your filtration you have a canister and a hob filter my question for you is how long are you waiting before plugging them back in, cause if you dont wait you have just lickley killed all the bactiea in the filter. think of it this way how long does it take for your warm watter to go from slightley cloudy to clear when you put it in a glass. But in all honesty add a trickle tower if possible, you cand build one below your tank build one above it. Also might need to say good bye to goldie and the pleco as they may prove to heavy load on a tank that is already to small for a ray let alone from competitiveness for food. sry not trying to be a dick or tell you how to keep your fish but there are alot of threads about plecos and rays and thats a rather large pleco.

hope this helps
 

yargnits

Piranha
MFK Member
Mar 19, 2011
925
100
76
Leeds, UK.
i dont think the temp is/was a problem being so sudden after being fine feeding i would say it was to do with filtration (amonia nitrite etc) everything fine. nothing changed except adding food. few hours later dead fish.
you would need to test the water at the time. testing the day after or after changing water wont tell you much about what the water was like at the time of the problem.
how long have the fish been in the tank ? (ie how long have the filters had to get used to the current bioload not to mention the addition of the ray and subsiquent extra food).

rays grow quite fast and your tank doesnt look very wide. i would look into that too before you get another ray (not great news i know . sorry ) .
 

Mihajlo525

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 4, 2015
225
1
16
Canada
i dont think the temp is/was a problem being so sudden after being fine feeding i would say it was to do with filtration (amonia nitrite etc) everything fine. nothing changed except adding food. few hours later dead fish.
you would need to test the water at the time. testing the day after or after changing water wont tell you much about what the water was like at the time of the problem.
how long have the fish been in the tank ? (ie how long have the filters had to get used to the current bioload not to mention the addition of the ray and subsiquent extra food).

rays grow quite fast and your tank doesnt look very wide. i would look into that too before you get another ray (not great news i know . sorry ) .
this was 9 days after I bought a 7" Kelberi Pbass and it usually takes 3-4 days for bioload to be problematic, what I'm wondering is how long does ammonia take to disappear without resulting in nitrates, because I only did a total of a 30% water change and two days after I did a nitrate test and there was only 0.2 and lower. Is it because I vacuumed the substrate it got rid of the ammonia? The tank bottom is 18" wide and don't retics get only 12-15" males getting only 12" and mine was a male, correct me if I'm wrong. Also if Nitrates was the problem wouldn't there still be a super high nitrate level because the WC only really gets rid of 30% of the nirates. Also my tank has been established or 3 years and I had the retic ray for two months. And what would be the best way to get keep ammonia at a low? My filtration is 1083GPH what should it be? I was also thinking of getting a 1150GPH powerhead would that help along with Java ferns would that help? And should I sell my 13" oscar because he seems to be clearly producing the most waste. also my tank is 1.5'x5' (18"x60") wide, it just looks skinny because the camera was filmed parallel with the tank bottom. Thanks for your input :)
 

Mihajlo525

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 4, 2015
225
1
16
Canada
i havent read your first form but you said tank mates ruled out so there goes both the pleco and goldie. A few conserns here 86 is far to warm of ur in the red zone for tropical fish. However something similare happind to me when doing a watter change it turned out to be that the cities local water supply was being upgrated so the watter wasnt the same as they where used to. in the span of getting them used to it i lost a large 13 inch male a 28 in fire eel and 17 inch tiger. But lets say this is not the case as its winter time and weather in your area might be frozen. with your filtration you have a canister and a hob filter my question for you is how long are you waiting before plugging them back in, cause if you dont wait you have just lickley killed all the bactiea in the filter. think of it this way how long does it take for your warm watter to go from slightley cloudy to clear when you put it in a glass. But in all honesty add a trickle tower if possible, you cand build one below your tank build one above it. Also might need to say good bye to goldie and the pleco as they may prove to heavy load on a tank that is already to small for a ray let alone from competitiveness for food. sry not trying to be a dick or tell you how to keep your fish but there are alot of threads about plecos and rays and thats a rather large pleco.

hope this helps
Would a trickle tower filter up my filtration enough to add a ray? Also I have a question on the trickle tower filter, can I just use a pump to put in water and another pump to return the water to the tank instead of using a overflow to put the water in the trickle tower? It seems much easier than a regular sump. And also what media do I put in the last compartment (the part that goes in the tank) I know Filter floss goes in the first and Plastic pot scrubbers/bioballs go in the second but what goes in the last? Is that also where you put your returning pump? Thanks so much! :)
 

yargnits

Piranha
MFK Member
Mar 19, 2011
925
100
76
Leeds, UK.
thats alot of questions lol.

i dont know how long it takes for the filters to adjust to increased bioload but i do know it takes months for a tank to become "mature" which i assume is related. if you have bought several new large fish in the space of a few weeks and increased the level of feeding along with the with the types of foods carnivores eat then i wouldnt be suprised at all if this was the problem.

im not sure the nitrates would be so much of a problem tbh but i expect the amonia and nitrites would be and as far as i know these are things that can dissapear quickly too. even without water changes.

disturbing the substrate could also potentially release lots of nasties for the filters to cope with.

i did think the tank looked smaller than 18" wide, probably the camera angle as stated. i honestly cant remember off the top of my head but the size you mentioned sounds more like a small verietyof retic. im sure if you ask about the sutable tank size or the adult size of retic on the forum you will get some better answers but its not the worst ive heard of people keeping rays in and your not getting an adult straight away either.
people used to say 6'x2' min but then realised that was on the small side and started saying 6' x 30" min. since then though there have been a few "mini" veriety's more readily available that max out at 12" which would easily suit a tank smaller than 6'x 30"

i understand that trickle towers are very efficient filters and adding any filtration would help greatly but questions regarding how to set up the filters might be better in the filtration section/DIY section for the best and most appropriate answers.
ive made a few filters myself but honestly im not how to answer as im sure there are so many different ways of using and setting up a trickle tower along with what media /compartments are in one. so the filtration/DIY section is the place to be i think as there are already examples of DIY setups on there.

rays are fantastic creatures (i have one squirting water out of the tank as i type even though there is a glass lid !) forums helped me so much when i was new so your in the right place.

i would use the test kits you have bought to keep testing the water over the next few months and see if you can identify any spikes in amonia or nitrite (particularly a few hours after feeding).
if you can add any filtration then do so, any extra filtration should help. (undergravel filters are not good for rays IMO ).
small rays especially are more sensitive than other fish to changes in water chemistry.
do small 20-25% weekly water changes and have a cover on your heater are a couple of basics most people suggest.

good luck :)
 

Mihajlo525

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 4, 2015
225
1
16
Canada
thats alot of questions lol.

i dont know how long it takes for the filters to adjust to increased bioload but i do know it takes months for a tank to become "mature" which i assume is related. if you have bought several new large fish in the space of a few weeks and increased the level of feeding along with the with the types of foods carnivores eat then i wouldnt be suprised at all if this was the problem.

im not sure the nitrates would be so much of a problem tbh but i expect the amonia and nitrites would be and as far as i know these are things that can dissapear quickly too. even without water changes.

disturbing the substrate could also potentially release lots of nasties for the filters to cope with.

i did think the tank looked smaller than 18" wide, probably the camera angle as stated. i honestly cant remember off the top of my head but the size you mentioned sounds more like a small verietyof retic. im sure if you ask about the sutable tank size or the adult size of retic on the forum you will get some better answers but its not the worst ive heard of people keeping rays in and your not getting an adult straight away either.
people used to say 6'x2' min but then realised that was on the small side and started saying 6' x 30" min. since then though there have been a few "mini" veriety's more readily available that max out at 12" which would easily suit a tank smaller than 6'x 30"

i understand that trickle towers are very efficient filters and adding any filtration would help greatly but questions regarding how to set up the filters might be better in the filtration section/DIY section for the best and most appropriate answers.
ive made a few filters myself but honestly im not how to answer as im sure there are so many different ways of using and setting up a trickle tower along with what media /compartments are in one. so the filtration/DIY section is the place to be i think as there are already examples of DIY setups on there.

rays are fantastic creatures (i have one squirting water out of the tank as i type even though there is a glass lid !) forums helped me so much when i was new so your in the right place.

i would use the test kits you have bought to keep testing the water over the next few months and see if you can identify any spikes in amonia or nitrite (particularly a few hours after feeding).
if you can add any filtration then do so, any extra filtration should help. (undergravel filters are not good for rays IMO ).
small rays especially are more sensitive than other fish to changes in water chemistry.
do small 20-25% weekly water changes and have a cover on your heater are a couple of basics most people suggest.

good luck :)
Wow thanks! That was really helpful! I never knew that there were larger kinds of reticulated rays. The store owners I bought it him from were experienced and have been selling them there for a while and they said they grew about 12", I researched on their care for a couple months but You can never know everything without trial and error. what's the "larger" kind most people buy? I'll most likely consider installing a trickle filter. And do you think my tank is large enough for an adult for life? An adult would have about 1.5x it's disc width in turning space and 5x it's disc width in swimming. I have had a undergravel filter sitting in it's box in mint condition for a couple years, I never really agreed on using it either, wouldn't it be practically impossible to keep a undergravel filter with a ray since they need sand? I do 20-25% water changes weekly though so that's good I guess. Do you think I should sell my 13" oscar? He's an aggressive ass and a poop machine (easily has the biggest bioload for his size), but the only thing is he looks nicer than most oscars. Do you think a Kelberi peacock bass (that will get about 14" atleast), a retic ray, a pleco, and a couple goldfish that stay there for only half the year could live in my 120 for life? Thanks again for your help!
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store