Is it possible to keep a fully stocked cichlid aquarium at 0ppm ammonia and nitrite with a single filter that is rated for slightly smaller tanks? For example a 125 gallon with a Fluval 406 that is rated for 100gal. I wonder if the ratings have any meaning. I don;t want to test it out myself.
Underfiltration??????!
- Thread starter saradomin
- Start date
The only way that would work is if you had a single or only several small fish in the tank, not fully or overstocked.
You need the mech. filtration as well as the area for bio filtration, so with only that small filter and a ton of fish and waste....your filter will clog up extremely quickly, and become a nitrate factory.
You need the mech. filtration as well as the area for bio filtration, so with only that small filter and a ton of fish and waste....your filter will clog up extremely quickly, and become a nitrate factory.
Pre filters on the canister. They will need to be cleaned probably every 2 days. You can make a giant DIY spray bar and fill it full of media like I did. My tank is pretty overstocked and I have very low turnover. No water issues
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Hello; from your initial post it appears you are thinking of a heavy stocking load for the tank size? An answer is likely in between (Yes for a while) and (No for a long term).
Some decades ago I ran tanks with no filtration at all. It can be done but there are issues. I cannot comment on water quality levels as consumer water test kits were not available as they are today.
I have since that time run tanks with, by current standards, what would be considered under filtration. In particular I ran tanks for many years with only air pump operated filters. Tiny flow compared to current filters. With live plants, snails and some bubble stones I did have overstocked tanks going. I had by that time learned of regular water changes (Again at a rate less than many consider needed today).
My take is that the beneficial bacteria (bb) will exist in a tank at a level to match the ammonia load and that the bb are not only in a filter system. They will colonize many surfaces in a tank in addition to the filter medium. The regular flow thru the filter medium may well mean a somewhat higher percentage of bb there. With lower flow rates my guess is that the bb will colonize the other surfaces to take advantage of the ammonia food they consume.
While being old is not usually a plus, I am pleased that I lived thru the stages of tank support tech. Were I to just be beginning to keep tanks the currently popular take on big filtration would likely be a starting point. Having kept tanks with much weaker filters over a few decades in the past allows me to know what is possible. While bigger filter capacity may in ways be desirable, it is not usually actually necessary. Much can be done with less.
The big issue is likely how overstocked the tank will be. Very heavy stocking and big filtration is a way to go. I avoid that now due to the very quick distress when the power goes off. My lightly stocked tanks do not go bad soon. I have had them do well with over three days of power failure compared to going sour in hours with heavy stocking.
Good luck
Some decades ago I ran tanks with no filtration at all. It can be done but there are issues. I cannot comment on water quality levels as consumer water test kits were not available as they are today.
I have since that time run tanks with, by current standards, what would be considered under filtration. In particular I ran tanks for many years with only air pump operated filters. Tiny flow compared to current filters. With live plants, snails and some bubble stones I did have overstocked tanks going. I had by that time learned of regular water changes (Again at a rate less than many consider needed today).
My take is that the beneficial bacteria (bb) will exist in a tank at a level to match the ammonia load and that the bb are not only in a filter system. They will colonize many surfaces in a tank in addition to the filter medium. The regular flow thru the filter medium may well mean a somewhat higher percentage of bb there. With lower flow rates my guess is that the bb will colonize the other surfaces to take advantage of the ammonia food they consume.
While being old is not usually a plus, I am pleased that I lived thru the stages of tank support tech. Were I to just be beginning to keep tanks the currently popular take on big filtration would likely be a starting point. Having kept tanks with much weaker filters over a few decades in the past allows me to know what is possible. While bigger filter capacity may in ways be desirable, it is not usually actually necessary. Much can be done with less.
The big issue is likely how overstocked the tank will be. Very heavy stocking and big filtration is a way to go. I avoid that now due to the very quick distress when the power goes off. My lightly stocked tanks do not go bad soon. I have had them do well with over three days of power failure compared to going sour in hours with heavy stocking.
Good luck
Under filtration? You know what website you're? on haha.
Anything can be done but you'll have some limitations. I have no doubts it could work for the short term, long enough for you to get another filter to go on the tank. Manufacturers ratings are very "optimistic"
I have a couple 406's my self. One used to be on a heavily stocked 75g African tank (along with 2 hob's) it would get filthy so fast. I cleaned it every month or two and it was almost plugged solid.
Now I have 2x 406's and 2x whisper 60 HOBs on my 75g bare bottom Oscar tank. The tank is so over filtered that by the time I get around to cleaning the canister, even after a couple months, there's hardly any debris or waste in the filter. It looks very clean still. You've gotta spread the workload out between a couple sources of filtration, and the other upside to this is that if your canister quits working, You're Not screwed.
Canisters last alot longer and run alot better if you can keep them clean. Mist canisters fail due to a lack of maintenance - they plug up, the impellers cavitate, vibrate, and get hot. Just my 2 cents.
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Anything can be done but you'll have some limitations. I have no doubts it could work for the short term, long enough for you to get another filter to go on the tank. Manufacturers ratings are very "optimistic"
I have a couple 406's my self. One used to be on a heavily stocked 75g African tank (along with 2 hob's) it would get filthy so fast. I cleaned it every month or two and it was almost plugged solid.
Now I have 2x 406's and 2x whisper 60 HOBs on my 75g bare bottom Oscar tank. The tank is so over filtered that by the time I get around to cleaning the canister, even after a couple months, there's hardly any debris or waste in the filter. It looks very clean still. You've gotta spread the workload out between a couple sources of filtration, and the other upside to this is that if your canister quits working, You're Not screwed.
Canisters last alot longer and run alot better if you can keep them clean. Mist canisters fail due to a lack of maintenance - they plug up, the impellers cavitate, vibrate, and get hot. Just my 2 cents.
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I have two canisters rated for 100g and two hob rated for 90g on my 150. I have 4 12"+ polys, 12" clown knife and a 6" peacock bass and i like to think im underfiltered.
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All surfaces in any aquarium eventually become colonized with beneficial bacteria, so in theory only circulation is required, but this works only as long as daily water changes and vacuuming are done (especially in a well stocked tank).
Without them detritus becomes a breeding ground for pathogenic bacteria, and nitrates soar into the danger zone.
I have plenty of tanks filtered only by a filter sock and a simple sponge, and never have nitrite or ammonia.
These tanks are lightly stocked, yet still get heavy water changes every other day(in summer, every day), and the sponge is also rinsed at least every other day (preferably every day).
I consider nitrate levels of 20ppm to be troublesome, and long term to be dangerous.
Without them detritus becomes a breeding ground for pathogenic bacteria, and nitrates soar into the danger zone.
I have plenty of tanks filtered only by a filter sock and a simple sponge, and never have nitrite or ammonia.
These tanks are lightly stocked, yet still get heavy water changes every other day(in summer, every day), and the sponge is also rinsed at least every other day (preferably every day).
I consider nitrate levels of 20ppm to be troublesome, and long term to be dangerous.
This is just my opinion. But high turnover is a mechanical filtration thing. A few people on here told me for biological filtration lower flow is more effective. I feel that debris like food and poop are the same weather they are in your substrate or in the filter. The exception being a spot that builds up extreme amounts of debris. That's usually a decoration of some kind. Routine cleaning during your water change can easily solve that. My tank is a 135 and houses
2 fairly large peacock bass
A 12" Oscar
12" giant gourami
4 silver dollars
Tinfoil barb
Tsn x rtc
10" srd flowerhorn
10" red bay snook.
8" tilapia.
I get no ammonia or nitrite and do a % 50 water change every 3 days to keep nitrates down. I have an api test kit to prove it. Canisters get cleaned each once a month.
Eheim 2028 and a fluval 404.
The Eheim has a bad impeller and is working at half flow. Both canisters feed into a 6' 4" in diameter spray filled with bio balls. About 3.5 gallons of them.
I'm guessing I'm turning over maybe 400 gph. Maybe less
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2 fairly large peacock bass
A 12" Oscar
12" giant gourami
4 silver dollars
Tinfoil barb
Tsn x rtc
10" srd flowerhorn
10" red bay snook.
8" tilapia.
I get no ammonia or nitrite and do a % 50 water change every 3 days to keep nitrates down. I have an api test kit to prove it. Canisters get cleaned each once a month.
Eheim 2028 and a fluval 404.
The Eheim has a bad impeller and is working at half flow. Both canisters feed into a 6' 4" in diameter spray filled with bio balls. About 3.5 gallons of them.
I'm guessing I'm turning over maybe 400 gph. Maybe less
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I'm in the high flow rate category. I think circulation is paramount for mechanical filtration and oxygenation. You are correct with the fact that waste makes no difference whether its in the substrate or the filters. That is if you don't clean your filters. It's easier to clean filters than the tank but that's just my opinion. I have to clean them anyway, and if I don't have to vaccum the substrate more often that's a win win.
Slower flow rates are more efficient for bio filtration. The trade off with a high turnover is the volume of water being filtered.
I've got an oscar tank with around 15x turnover and I have no ammonia issues. It's basically what you prefer in your tank. Unless your keeping river fish or fish that like high current, it's best to try to diffuse the flow.
And I saw your post with the huge media filled overhead spraybar. That's an awesome idea. I've tried that before with a Rubbermaid container over a tank. Gravity is always you're friend with filtration.
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Slower flow rates are more efficient for bio filtration. The trade off with a high turnover is the volume of water being filtered.
I've got an oscar tank with around 15x turnover and I have no ammonia issues. It's basically what you prefer in your tank. Unless your keeping river fish or fish that like high current, it's best to try to diffuse the flow.
And I saw your post with the huge media filled overhead spraybar. That's an awesome idea. I've tried that before with a Rubbermaid container over a tank. Gravity is always you're friend with filtration.
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