"Japanese style" = "excuse to overstock"?

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señor_pescados_felices

Feeder Fish
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May 26, 2006
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Just like the thread says,thats pretty much what I see it as.

Ive been seeing a huge increse in interest in "Japanese style tanks",and I honestly don't know how that can be when it goes against some of the very basic principals of keeping monster fish that MFK as a whole strives to teach.

I don't think it's okay to be done in Japan where their excuse is that they don't have enough space for real monster tank but they love their monster fish (oh so sad for you,no space for a monster tank?THEN DON'T GET THE FISH) and I especially don't think its okay for someone who lives in a country where monster tanks and the space to put them are readily available to emulate said setup just because they saw it in a pic and thought it was cool.

Three of the things I see stressed most often on this site are appropriate tank size,appropriate filtration,and appropriate stocking levels...a "Japanese style" tank breaks two of those rather important "rules",for lack of a better word.Why is that acceptable?

So they over filter their tanks,big deal,Don't we all?

I recall on a thread titled "why $5k for a fish?" where someone made a statement about the different categories a fish keeper falls into when it comes to purchasing fish,and I would like to reword that statement slightly and use it here in an effort show where we all stand as fish keepers.Its simple really,we all fall into one of these categories:

A)You like fish,you have tank large enough for fish to thrive,swimming freely without having to rub up against other fish,so you buy fish.

B)You like fish,but you don't have tank big enough tank (or your current tank is already appropriately stocked),so you dont buy fish

C)You like fish,you don't really have tank large enough for fish,and the tank you do have is already pretty full, but you buy fish anyway,and then try to justify it by referring to it as a " Japanese Style" setup

It almost makes us (MFK as a whole) seem hypocritical to be (as a whole) promoting responsible fish keeping and yet have so many members be supportive of such a setup.And don't try to twist that statement the wrong way because I am personally super proud to be a MFK'er,and got just as much MFK spirit as most,if not more.

Also I will note that while I am venting so to speak I am not trolling or flaming anyone (I've not singled any members out) and would appreciate it if we could keep it that way so this topic can be discussed in full without the thread being closed.


 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
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Dec 28, 2006
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señor_pescados_felices;924098; said:
So they over filter their tanks,big deal,Don't we all?




No. We do do not all ( unfortunately ) "overfilter "Senor, imo...
 

filiportela

Piranha
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Nov 13, 2005
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filter is normally a new MFK's last concern... unfortunatly :grinno:

a new MFK want's more and more until there has to be a severe intervention on filtering system....

and to the overstock part i whould say, with some fish you simply have to, but with exotics you shouldn't...

make your fish happy, for they do the same for you;)
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2006
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I think people are over excited with the "space for fish" theme.

if we are really honest, all fish captivity, be it tanks, be it ponds, be it John Ptc's or that 50,000 gl over in Canada, is unsuitable for most fish species and we are not giving them the space they are entitled to have as living beings.

So let us all forget fishkeeping and let us all "free" our fish..

I do not agree with you, Senor. I like "japanese style" fishkeeping...it is a centuries old, time honoured, practice .

Beyond that, one just has to look at the pix of "j-tanks ( to call it short )and one will see that in most cases they are the ones with the "better" water and with healthier looking fish, and that is because, usually, they are kept by very savy guys who know very well what they are doing.

I, for one, will not refrain myself from adding a new fish to the tank, ( agressivity issues obviously pondered ) just on account of space.

M:)
 

cichlaguapote

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Oct 2, 2006
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There are no rules in fishkeeping.. it only goes on what you morals are, and how you see fish and life in general. Look at a tank like marshy's(I use him as example because everyone on youtube made a fuss) and all the of the fish have efficent room, water is crystal clear and I see nothing wrong with "overstocking".

But when someones keeping large pacu's in a 125g with a ac110 then I see a problem with that and it's sorta on the opposite end of the spectrum.

You have people on the opposite ends of the spectrum, some who can claim tetras can be overstocked and some who don't think fish need to turn around. I think most of us are in the middle and most here see nothing wrong with "overstocking" as long as filtration is up to snuff and the fish have turn around/swim room.
 

fishdance

Redtail Catfish
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Jan 30, 2007
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There is a similar themed thread on the catfish forum:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75177

I live in Japan currently. Believe me when I say space is SHORT!! You have to be here to understand. I feel (huge generalization here) that many Japanese people WOULD give their fish more room if they could. Its not always money that is the problem and they are fanatical fish keepers.... thats why I am here actually. Their knowledge and expertise is well proven since even supermarkets and corner stores/convenience stores all transport and keep live food fish. Understand why you refer to Japanese stocked tanks but feel people should also have some insight as to why.
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2006
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fishdance;924144; said:
Their knowledge and expertise is well proven since even supermarkets and corner stores/convenience stores all transport and keep live food fish. Understand why you refer to Japanese stocked tanks but feel people should also have some insight as to why.
Exactly! They could teach many a westerner how to keep fish. One just has to look at their tanks.
 

fishdance

Redtail Catfish
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Jan 30, 2007
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Actually Miguel, I am WITH Senor with regards to overstocking. If possible I WOULD be giving fish the room. I am just pointing out the adverse conotations of calling these tanks Japanese Stocked Tanks to people who havent been to Japan. I keep all my larger fish in aboveground pools. I do have some 10 foot, 12 foot and even larger aquaria but its hard to beat a circular 15 foot diameter pool (Viewing panels are easy to install).

That said, I am not criticising you or anyone who chooses to overstock. Rightly or wrongly, fish do not have the same rights as humans.
 

santoury

Fire Eel
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Dec 8, 2006
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No, I don't think many of us overfilter our tanks.

Case in point: NONE of my lungfish have a filter, except for the 3 largest ones. I do water changes by hand instead.
ONLY two of my other tanks have a filter (I have more filters, but do not use them.) I see filtration as an excuse (personally) to put off water changes a little longer. Instead, I put in a small internal filter to keep aeration and filtration going, but do frequent water changes.

As for Japan Style - I feel that if we can keep the fish happy, psychologically, mentally active and happy, then that's "okay" NOTHING we give them will equal nature, so it's basically "keep them, OR not."
We are Monster Fish Keepers, not necessarily Monster Tank Keepers, per se.
I have never owned anything larger than a 100 gallon tank, and I have done Japan Style for... all my life, basically, with absolutely no problems - If one fish doesn't "fit in" fish get moved around, problem solved. Just keep the fish happy, healthy, is what counts.
 
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