The end-all "should I adjust my pH" thread. I will buy test kits, anything...

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knifegill

knifegill

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
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Oscar Tummy
Alright. My local tap water comes out of the tap with an artificial pH of 7.3-ish. As it degases it plummets within hours down into the 6.5 range. Without intervention it soon falls below readable levels, even with regular weekly water changes of 50% or more. My local tap has these parameters

PDF won't let me copy and paste very neatly, so here's the link. http://www.ci.everett.wa.us/Get_PDF.aspx?pdfID=2586

and I can dig deeper if we need to.

I want to know if, for the sake of my amazon fish, I need to even be buffering. I used to use crushed coral but that got to be a PITA as it dissolves too quickly. So lately I started using baking soda but now my snails are getting pitted shells. So I figure I need to add calcium at the least. But aside from the calcium and maybe some magnesium (or I can just quit keeping snails!) is it really a terrible thing to let the pH go low, low, low? I saw some recent posts about gas-based pH being of little concern to fish and I already know the recited armchair wisdom about bacteria ceasing to function at low pH levels, but then I read about people and their amazon tanks being down into the 4.5 range. So I know it can work somehow.

So, dang it, let's get this ball rolling. How much more info do you guys need to have to determine if I can let my water be soft and finally stop worrying about the pH swing from degasing?
 
What species do you have? In general, the Amazonian tributaries have a pH of around 6.0.
Heavy aeration and surface agitation will increase CO2 removal, which will raise the pH. A lot of plants will aid in nitrate removal, which will also raise the pH. This in combination with regular water changes are some easy ways to maintain a higher pH.

pH swings of more than 0.3 per 24 hours can cause deleterious effects, so be careful. Acidosis usually occurs around pH 5.0-5.5, but with Amazonian species I would expect it to be lower around 4.5. With acute onset of acidosis from a rapid drop in pH, you will see excitability, rapid swimming motions, jumping, gasping, and sudden death. With slow onset acidosis from a slow drop in pH, signs can be very subtle resulting in slow death.
 
A little crushed coral in a in the system will help the buffering. Are you overstocked ? What size is your tank and how much filtration ?
 
My PH has been below 6.0 for many years and I've done nothing to address/change it. I had no problems while maintaining a 1200 gallon fish room and both my South and Central American Cichlids bred very well in this water...

Also, in many years with many tanks I never had detectable ammonia that could be blamed on bacteria failing to function in low PH levels. It may be slightly less effective at lower PH levels, but that just means more bacteria cells are produced. It does not mean ammonia stops oxidizing.
 
Thanks, nc_nutcase. I was hoping that might be the case. Seems probable I've been buffering all this time for no reason.

A little crushed coral in a in the system will help the buffering. Are you overstocked ? What size is your tank and how much filtration ?
Click to expand...
Tanks range from 5g up to 75g. My 125 leaked so it's out of the picture for now. Many of the smaller tanks have sponge filters but my 75 and 55g's have many HOB combos and DIY top filters. I'm just sort of scratching my head now about why I've been buffering my water for so long. I mean, it made sense once upon a time, but now that almost all my fish are from very soft water I'm revisiting this. Some of my tanks are a little heavily stocked, most are understocked.

What species do you have? In general, the Amazonian tributaries have a pH of around 6.0.
Heavy aeration and surface agitation will increase CO2 removal, which will raise the pH. A lot of plants will aid in nitrate removal, which will also raise the pH. This in combination with regular water changes are some easy ways to maintain a higher pH.

pH swings of more than 0.3 per 24 hours can cause deleterious effects, so be careful. Acidosis usually occurs around pH 5.0-5.5, but with Amazonian species I would expect it to be lower around 4.5. With acute onset of acidosis from a rapid drop in pH, you will see excitability, rapid swimming motions, jumping, gasping, and sudden death. With slow onset acidosis from a slow drop in pH, signs can be very subtle resulting in slow death.
Click to expand...
Species: Many SA catfish, angelfish, bettas, and the species I'd probably have to relocate include some silver/green mollies, snails, and perhaps my SB jade goby. But I'd probably just give the goby his own tank.

I have HOB's running with lots of pads and sponges and pothos, spider plants, willow sprouts, etc. My tanks get a 50% water change once a week. My pH is currently buffered with baking soda up to about 7.2.
 
A little crushed coral I recommended is so that the ph doesn't drop so quick after water changes. Nothing wrong with the lower ph environment your fish are in. I wouldn't use Bicarb soda constantly as it can swing ph very quickly especially in smaller tanks, where it can be difficult to dose as you require so little.
 
Check the DIY algae filter from the thread search. Cleans the water and raises the ph!
 
How fast does your cc dissolve? Mine lasts for months in my 40 breeder and I only add a handfull. i always like having the cc in my tanks to just provide more insurance that you won't get ph swings.
 
Well, now that I know that carbon pH swings are harmless I'm just going to be focusing on hardness. Since sodium bicarbonate only adds temporary carbonate hardness, I'm abandoning it. As suggested, too unstable. But I've also seen an article suggesting that crushed coral is also not appropriate for FW chemistry.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...cussion/32365-low-no-kh-low-ph-without-3.html

I'm thinking of just slowly letting my buffers degrade all over the place and perhaps buying an ultra-low pH test kit.
 
Okay, here's what I've decided. I'm leaping. Going to try it with my 75g first. Only adding small amounts of crushed eggshell and epsom salt for GH, not for KH at all. I'm going to add plants to it and bring the light down for better power as well.
 
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