Project: ZERO Nitrate

Hey,
Just a clarification about denitrification. As a student microbiologist, anaerobic bacteria that use Nitrate (as an electron acceptor) don't use the oxygen component of NO3. Otherwise they'd be "aerobic". Anaerobic implies use of something other than O2, such as Nitrogen or Sulfur They use the Nitrogen.
They convert it in the following manner.

Nitrate --> Nitrite --> Ammonia --> N2 (Nitrogen gas)
Hence the name "Denitrification". It's basically the opposite of what the aerobic nitrification bacteria do.

So it seems plausible to me that you can have an increase in your nitrite/ammonia readings before they turn into N2 gas and escape into the atmosphere. Assuming you have the right bacteria in there. Many bacteria can only use (reduce) Nitrate to Nitrite and it ends there.

Sorry, I don't know much about denitrification with aquariums though. I've only observed potentially pathogenic types, though the denitrification process would be the same.

Zinq

PS. Not trying to make you feel stupid or anything of the sort. Just some commentary and speculation on my part.

Zinq;668223; said:

Hey,
Just a clarification about denitrification. As a student microbiologist, anaerobic bacteria that use Nitrate (as an electron acceptor) don't use the oxygen component of NO3. Otherwise they'd be "aerobic". Anaerobic implies use of something other than O2, such as Nitrogen or Sulfur They use the Nitrogen.
They convert it in the following manner.

Nitrate --> Nitrite --> Ammonia --> N2 (Nitrogen gas)
Hence the name "Denitrification". It's basically the opposite of what the aerobic nitrification bacteria do.

So it seems plausible to me that you can have an increase in your nitrite/ammonia readings before they turn into N2 gas and escape into the atmosphere. Assuming you have the right bacteria in there. Many bacteria can only use (reduce) Nitrate to Nitrite and it ends there.

Sorry, I don't know much about denitrification with aquariums though. I've only observed potentially pathogenic types, though the denitrification process would be the same.

Zinq

PS. Not trying to make you feel stupid or anything of the sort. Just some commentary and speculation on my part.

Click to expand...

So your saying we'll dump more ammonia back in the tank after the denitrator than what went into the denitrator?


JardiniBoy, the main reason the F/S crowd has little on denitrating vs S/W...S/W costs a bundle to do W/C's so they have incentive.

Dr Joe

.

Theoretically, yes. I'm really not well informed of the dynamics behind an aquarium denitrification system. I think it really depends on what kinda bacteria you get... Some will only denitrify back to Nitrite some go all the way and make N2. So I guess if theres bubbles coming out of ur denitrification apparatus then its a fairly good sign.

At worst the nitrates that was made by the aerobic bacteria is converted back to ammonia... which is in turn converted back to nitrate... and so on. So yah technically if you dont have the right bacteria and environment you may end up with more ammonia then what went in. At best, you get complete denitrification and Nitrogen gas... which can take a while. But then again, I just know this part in theory. If anyone has had this work for them, then more power to them.

I just read the linked thread on Biohome and googled some stuff. But from my understanding, maintaining an adequate environment for anaerobic bacteria is going to be slightly difficult. The environment has to be quite anaerobic. Some bacteria that live in an O2 free environment will die if exposed to air because they lack the enzymes that are needed to break down free oxygen radicals (O3, hydrogen peroxide etc).
I've had to perform growth of organisms in anaerobic environments and just exposing them to air will quickly kill off my culture. Have to set up anaerobic chambers and what not. Big hassle.

Anyways, good luck to you JardiniBoy. Hope it works out. Plants seem so much easier to me though .

Zinq

Good luck JardiniBoy, but honestly Purigen + a drip system would work much better IMO. Keep us posted.

JardiniBoy;668180; said:

I would like to start a thread about reducing nitrate through filtration in FW systems. The marine bros are pro at this and there is a lot of good info out there about nitrate reduction, but very few FW bros seem to be into this.

In the normal (aerobic) part of the nitrogen cycle which happens in all FW filters, NH3/NH4 is converted to NO2, and then to NO3 (nitrate) which is removed by water changes. Anaerobic bacteria live in low oxygen and oxygen free areas and consume NO3 as a source of oxygen.

I have had 2 coil denitrators installed for the past few months. Search for "DIY coil denitrator" for more info. I'm also looking into using a remote deep sand bed (RDSB) as per the ones used and recommended by Anthony Calfo (marine genius) over on RC. Info on this here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109

(50 pages long but well worth the read)

I know that some bros use commercial denitrators here ... do they work?

Also, does anyone have any experience/info regarding coil denitrators, DSBs, RDSBs, sulphur denitrators, or any other means of reducing nitrate in a freshwater aquarium?

Please don't think I'm trying to get away from my waterchanges. I've come to accept that changing water is part of this hobby, and have come to enjoy doing mine. My hope is that, when i start running all my systems together (and start testing), I'll have low nitrates and will be able to do small weekly water changes which will stress the fish less..

Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

nitrate should be the one of the worries, you also have other dissolved organic compounds, and a bacteria count in the water column. Not no mention the acids produced by nitrification.

Iv'e been running the Korallin S4002 Sulfur Denitrator for 3 month know and it's works very well. I recently added a 50' coil in front of it to help ensure low O2 water gets to it. It's input water depending on the time of last WC is 20-50 mg/L and output is 0-5 mg/L with a rate of approx 35 gal/Day. I had tried DIY Coil unit before and they worked well, but they would plug off after a few months, but I have been thinking of building another one using some different ideas. As for DSB's I have never had one, although lately I have been thinking of building one, anything to help control nitrates. How did you build your DSB?