Deep Sand Beds for Freshwater tanks

yup exactly. alot of resistance from the fresh water crew. Its major concept supporters come from SW. I personally wouldn't run a tank without it, regardless of environment. The misses has got decent loads on her tanks, & im still testing zero's right across the boards.

Unfortunately your sh^t out of luck my friend, i had this very same discussion on another board, & it annoyed me so much I turned my attention to testing first hand this very situation.
Unfortunately i've shut my own projects down till christmas (till i rectify a financial situation.) or else i could have given you data first hand.

One of the main avenues i wanted to test for myself was various levels of acidic environments. The rules begin the change, so of coarse its got me hook line & sinker.

kurare;4397020; said:

Been searching for days for FW DSB & RDSB on the site/net, but everyone is always talking their SW setups. No one posted anything useful that I could find rather easily as a (dead) post.

Bumped into this website regarding DSB for FW: Uses, functionality, and how to setup one up. Reasoning mainly was for use specifically in a FW environment. I'm assuming the RDSB will reflect for the most part the same uses as how it's setup in-tank.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html

Some people use algae scrubbers to remove nitrates, time to go a more "green" method *crosses-fingers*

Also, if anyone has even remotely tried this before please chime in the following FOR FW TANKS:

1. Tank size
2. Bio-load
3. Avg nitrate reading prior/after use... its effectiveness for you
4. Your RDSB/DSB setup: type of sand, area of surface of sand if used in conjunction with a sump, etc etc the details to yield the effectiveness.

Almost convince this works, just need some push to create one, LMK!
Thanks for reading, and i hope to get some solid answers

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I read that article last winter and decided to give it a try on my 220; which has a pretty heavy bio-load. In May I built a new sump and filled it with 30-40lbs of sand, about 4" deep. I used 3m color quartz I had laying around. My sump is basically a 27g bin with the sand and a pump, no other media. Mechincal filtration happens in a settling chamber prior to entering the sump. For the first 3 months I had an FX5 running side by side. I recently removed the FX5 and started testing the water everyday. Ammonia and Nitrites stayed at 0. Because of other factors I can't speak on nitrate reduction at this time.

A light dusting for me, rays and asian aros..... get to see the sand, but no rot in the bed

I think a source of the resistance for freshwater DSB is that there are many species of easy, fast growing plants that are great nitrate sponges.

I would assume that the same principles for saltwater DSB work for freshwater ones. And if you cant find information online, why not pioneer your own methods and post the results?

I'm familiar with the saltwater concept of dsb, but from what I read the success of it depended on the existance of the micro organisms in the dsb. I think the problem with freshwater is you dont have those organism to stir up the sand and prevent anaerobic gas. What exactly would the point be for freshwater either? Like penguin said, theres really no reason as long as you utilyze plants your parameters will be much easier to keep in range. Since I've used plants in my tanks I havn't had any nitrates in my tanks, other than the nitrate I add. Not to mention 0 ammonia or nitrite

carsona246;4479794; said:

I'm familiar with the saltwater concept of dsb, but from what I read the success of it depended on the existance of the micro organisms in the dsb. I think the problem with freshwater is you dont have those organism to stir up the sand and prevent anaerobic gas.

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From what I understand of Freshwater DSB, you don't want to stir up the sand. The Anaerobic layer and the interaction between it and the oxygenated later is what makes it work as a complete bio filter. They actually recommend if you have to remove plants from it that you just cut them at the base and leave the root structure intact so as to not disturb the sand.

carsona246;4479794; said:

What exactly would the point be for freshwater either? Like penguin said, theres really no reason as long as you utilyze plants your parameters will be much easier to keep in range. Since I've used plants in my tanks I havn't had any nitrates in my tanks, other than the nitrate I add. Not to mention 0 ammonia or nitrite

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It's the same point as doing it in Saltwater. It's a complete nitrogen cycle, not just stopping at converting Nitrites to Nitrates and removing the excess Nitrate buildup through water changes. Plants can also be included in it to help even more.

Overall the goal is less maintenance and a more natural cycle. Some DSB stories I've read say they can go a month or more between water changes, instead of weekly. Even then they are still reading 0 across the nitrogen board, they are just doing it to counter possible hormone buildup and stuff.

It also reduces the need for external filtration. Consider the power savings if you don't have to run sump pumps constantly, multiple canister filters, etc.

I definately think I'll be trying it on my next big tank I get. I like the idea.

Idk, theres still many saltwater people who disagree with using dsb in their tanks, and that is with microorganism's stirring the substrate. I think trying to have anearobic gas in your tank is just a bad idea. I've lost fish to anaerobic gas through a canister filter, and it wipes out your whole tank. I could go years without a water change using plants if I wanted to, but I still think it's necessary to do water changes. If your goal is to lower nitrates I think the safest/easiest way would be to find some low light plants. Thats what I love about freshwater that I think most hobbyists overlook. Plants can have an awesome affect on your water quality.

This topic seems to come up every so often and it's one that interests me greatly.

I wonder what some of the older MFKers think?

I have 220 pounds of CaribSea "Sunset Gold" sand in my 210. It works out to a bed that is between 3" and 4" deep. I'm not sure if this is considered a "Deep Sand Bed", but it is quite a bit more sand than most people are using.

I did it purely for aesthetics, I like the look of a lot of substrate. The Eartheaters keep the upper layers pretty well turned over, but I don't really know what it going on underneath.

I am on a well, so I control nitrates primarily with water changes - my auto water change system changes out 96 gallons per day, which keeps nitrate levels between 0 and 5 ppm.