ok to simplify this thread down. discussion is only about if a cichlids teeth can penetrate a bichirs scales. yes i think a dovii could not only penetrate it but put half of it in its mouth and thrash its head side to side and rip it in half. tmo.
Thickness of bichir's scales
- Thread starter King-eL
- Start date
fishguts;3948916; said:
I've seen 17" amairas biting a 14" endli but can't even rip it apart although it killed it. They were supposed to be as tank mates but the guy is dumb enough to add anything with amairas. I've seen a dovii fighting a wolffish and also jardini. It can even tear a flesh out. So penetrating a bichir's scales is nowhere as close. It might scratch it but I don't think it can even penetrate it unless the bichirs is very small.
equal size. 20 inch dovii 20 inch bichir. well i know the dovii could get the head and neck of the bichir in its mouth with not problem. the question is could it penetrate the bichir i still say yes
fishguts;3948916; said:
From the museum tank that I take care of, I took the 10 year old gar who died and cut it's head off so that I could retrieve the skull as a keepsake.
I have really sharp knives, sharp enough to cut clean to the bone with little effort and even go further if the pressure was enough dependant upon which knife being used. I keep my knives in top shape and keep a killer edge on them.
When I used one of my knives that I decided to dedicate to my fish equipment I had a really really hard time getting the head off and had to actually angle the blade to go under the scale to start it. I would have to say the dovi would have to have an insane jaw pressure to accomplish that.
fishguts;3948942; said:
A 20" dovii won't even able to penetrate a scale of a 9" bichir let a alone a 20" which will have much thicker scales. Lol! Dude you're way out of your head.
I have to agree that it can fit the head of the bichir in it's mouth but still couldn't penetrate the scales even the skull.
chefjamesscott;3948969; said:
exactly, and a dovii does not. 20" dovii vs a 20" bichir, definitely not going to get through those scales.
until you have dealt with these fishes (as the poster who i am quoting) you don't realize how strong the scales are. "typical" cycloid and ctenoid scales of teleost fishes are nothing in comparison...and the jaw strength of a cichlid is just not strong enough. a really big lungfish might have a shot in terms of jaw strength, but a 20" dovii...nope.--
--solomon
E_americanus;3948987; said:
I wish to add in one other thing about fish skin.
Now I don't know if there is a difference between living and dead shark but I used to get very big sides of mako shark for cooking and I tried a variety of ways to pierce the skin and found it very surprising how the deflective nature of the skin was. Not as easy to pierce as movies would say, unless a live shark is less tough. Granted I was using chef knives of all sorts and not a diving knife, but I sure would not want to have to try to knife a shark, give me a bangstick any day.
Now lungfish they are very interesting and crafty fish. Mine regularly sneaks up when I am about to drop in his food. I have learned to make sure no digits are anywhere near the water. One time mine almost got my thumb in its mouth as I had my hand straddling the lip and my thumb was over the water surface.
I can not imagine being in water and having an aligator gar swim up. Bought time to stick my head somewhere and pucker up if it took a notion to taking a bite.
To the dovi fan, no personal slight meant, but try this find a dead adult gar and a dead adult dovi and try to cut the scales and see what happens. One other aspect I find in this discussion is the ease with which a cichlids scales can come off and the well nigh impossible aspect of a gar's scales coming off let alone a bichir with the way they are so tightly interlocked and indeed locked down. Some of my big cichlids when netted freak out so bad they shed scales, never had that happen with a bichir or gar.
King-eL;3948983; said:A 20" dovii won't even able to penetrate a scale of a 9" bichir let a alone a 20" which will have much thicker scales. Lol! Dude you're way out of your head.
maybe not a 20 inch bichir but deffinatly a 9 inch. are you nuts to think a massive 20 inch dovii could not penetrate a 9 inch bichirs scales and who said anything at all about penetrating the skull. of course not. thats solid bone your the out of your mind. were not talking about bone crushing so why even state that
chefjamesscott;3949012; said:
i would believe the skin would be tougher once dead and dried out but not sure. i have had a few scales come off when i netted a bichir that was to large for the net.
