The Evil Malaysian Trumpet Snail of Death

Razor7Music

Candiru
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Dec 18, 2008
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I successfully kept Malawi cichlids for 6 or so years. My biggest problem was they kept breeding, and my elaborate hardscape made it impossible to remove the new critters from the tank.

I eventually got fed up with the mbuna’s level of aggression, but wanted to stick with the hobby, so I decided on switching to a Tanganyika tank, and focus on more peaceful cyprichromis—which I think are beautiful.

Circumstances required me to switch my glass tank to acrylic, and my fluorescent bulb to LED. I was able to design a multi-substrate environment, and include plants for the first time, since mbuna destroy them.

I was excited about my new tank. My biggest new challenge was finding where I could buy these rare fish. After not finding any near me and exhausting all the LFS with my calls, I eventually drove far, and farther still until I got a very nice collection of cyprichromis leptosoma and a few different shell dwelling cichlids (shellies). I loved my new tank, and my beautiful new fish. I waited for the males to mature and start coloring up. Eventually the tails started getting yellow, then the bodies turned purple and a sort of orange (kitumba)—and, they weren’t killing each other!

Because of my new increased lighting, I then started getting a bloom of algae. I reduced the hours of lighting, didn’t over feed, put more plants in the tank and started trying an algae chemical additive. Nothing was working and I was literally scrubbing rocks and shells with a toothbrush to keep my tank clean.

Then enters the evil Malaysian trumpet snails of death (MTS). I did a little research online, obviously not enough. I ordered some online, and got some nerite snails from my LFS. It wasn’t long after, that my tank looked bright and shiny again. It was awesome! I did notice a proliferation of MTS, but it didn’t seem to bother me since I knew they were also helping aerate the substrate.

I am the kind of hobbyist that takes a lot of time to make sure my tank and fish are healthy and clean—it’s a workout, but I feel an obligation to these animals under my care, and I enjoy watching them more when everything is healthy; so I do regular water changes. It drew time for a regular water change, and everything was going well, as usual. The fish seem to enjoy the water change—don’t ask me why, but they seem to get frisky with each other when the new water is being added.

To my utter shock, some of my fish started struggling and swimming sideways. I didn’t know what was happening. I instantly went into critical care mode. I grabbed the affected fish and began putting them in my hospital tank. Honestly, the rest is still too painful for me to relate in any more detail. Let me just say, that I lost almost all of my fish, and I did lose all of my cyprichromis. They were my pests first, but it was at $300 that I stopped counting the cost as well.

I’m leaving out some irrelevant details for brevity, but I had to know what happened to my fish so it would never happen again. In six plus years of keeping fish I had never had such a catastrophic tragedy as this. I was devastated. I have a chemical test kit and I went to work. Everything looked awesome, except nitrates. I did a thorough amount of research and based on my care habits, the only possible answer was the increased waste being produced by the MTS. What I learned was that they were producing the additional waste and altering my tank’s chemistry. Since the increase was gradual, my fish adapted and didn’t show any signs of stress or anything negative for that matter. With the sudden change in the water chemistry from the water change, the fish went into shock and died. Very sad.

But how could a few MTS affect the water chemistry of a 60 gallon tank you ask? I originally bought about 10 MTS. With a sifter I now remove 50 – 70 MTS a week! They have infested my tank!

I have since started restocking my tank with cyprichromis (cyps), and have added 10 new little friends called assassin snails. They are attacking and eating the excess MTS I can’t get to, and I have to say, I get a little satisfaction from using an organic removal method. I actually think the assassin snails look cool, so that’s a plus.

I have reduced the amount I feed my fish even more, and I have stopped putting algae pellets in the tank to feed my nerites—sorry guys. Desperate times…

Of course, the main solution is to have lower percentage of water changes---at least until I get the nitrate/snail situation under control. Then I might gradually go back to the percentage that worked before the invasion of the Evil Malaysian Trumpet Snails of Death.

Consider this a warning if you are thinking of getting these snails. Find another way to solve your algae or aerations problems—trust me. They are far more trouble than they are worth!
 

predatorkeeper87

Potamotrygon
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Sep 8, 2014
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Almost made that mistake because I heard they aerate substrate, and all my tanks are sand. I stopped short when I heard they breed like rabbits. good luck man, the assassin snails will do the trick in no time.
 

divemaster99

Dovii
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Jan 10, 2014
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Yeah they sure breed alright. I culture MTSs on my deck as darter feeders, started with 40 or so and now I'm up to probably close to 1,000.
 

rodger

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So your hypothesis is that lowering the nitrates too fast killed the fish? Sorry, but I don't buy it. Removing a toxin is worse then leaving it in? What was the nitrate level at before the water change? How much did you drop it with the water change? I will assume you change water weekly. You had so many more snails then the week before that nitrates did this? Logic says no way. Most people know more than me, so do we have any experts that back it up?

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duanes

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I also doubt a drop in nitrates would harm the fish.
Because Lake Tanganyika is such a large body of water, its chemical parameters are very constant, and normal nitrate concentration averages <1.
I have thousands of Malay snails in my sand substrate tanks, and nitrate levels vary from 2-5ppm, but I do frequent 20-30% water changes every other day, and never feed the snails, they do fine on detritus.
These frequent water changes keep chemical levels constant, those conditions that fish from large, stable lakes require.
A drastic change in pH may be more likely the cause, I also doubt the snails are the cause of elevated nitrates.
If your pH after a water change is for example 7.8, but had gradually dropped to a more acidic 6.0 before the change, the difference after the change could be enough to do in sensitive fish like Cyps.
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
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May 16, 2011
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Hello; I have had the MTS in tanks for over 50 years. Back during the first decade or so I had some serious infestations of them and the ramshorn snails. The large numbers were due to my overfeeding and I have since learned to be more judicious with the fish food. The problems of a large number of snails never included a fish die off as you describe.

I note that you mention a chemical algae treatment. What was that and how long before the snail population increase?

The large number of snails would seem to indicate an imbalance of some sort, maybe overfeeding, that the snails were a result of and not necessarily the cause. Could it be that something went wrong during the water change?

I have read of folks turning off the filters during a water change for a bit too long. The decay toxins then built up in the uncirculated water in the filter body and were released when the pumps was turned back on. With possible overfeeding and perhaps a heavy stocking the tank may have been at a critical point?

At any rate I have had these snails for a long time and they have been a positive element for my tanks.

Good luck
 

Razor7Music

Candiru
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Thanks for all the opinions guys. A couple of you need to re-read my post so I won't address those, but what I will address is that I didn't come to my opinion on my own. I did the research on fish dying after water changes as well as high nitrates.

What I left out was time frames. The only variable between happy fish and dead fish was a population explosion of MTS. Not the water, I don't turn the filter off and I control my pH with crushed shell substrate and seachem buffer made for Tanys.

Now, I am an open minded person and admit my opinion is not scientific, but I'm no noob to caring for fish and had these cyps for months before adding snails.

If there is another, or additional cause for my fish dying, I certainly want to know what it is, and I thank those of you that are trying to help.

I'll keep you posted on how things go after the snails are under control and a few water changes later.

I still don't like trumpet snails :eek:

Peace


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Blkpiranha

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MTS regulate their own numbers. When food is plentiful, they multiply. When food is scarce, they stop multiplying. Thus, your tank will eventually reach a point of equilibrium, where you have just enough MTS for your tank, and no more. They will rarely reach plague proportions unless you heavily overfeed your fish. So it was either the algae chemical additive or maybe something in the water when you changed it that killed the fish. How new was the tank? Do you use a prime,safe or some kind of water conditioner?

Your fish deaths weren't caused by too many snails but something else. Your best option to control algae is less feeding,less light and more water changes. Never use chemical additive for algae control as it's hard on the fish and If the light was producing too much algae then invest in a different one. Change the led to one with different lighting options so you can control how bright it is and use timers for the lights and only put them on when you are around to view the fish. Don't set up a tank by a window. These are all better options then adding chemical additives to the tank as what the bottle doesn't tell you is "it's hard on the fish".
 

rodger

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You haven't stated nitrate level before and after water change. Lets rule it out or say it was part of the problem. Where did you read that a drastic reduction of nitrates can cause a severe reaction / death?

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RD.

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It is not a drastic reduction of nitrates that can cause a severe reaction / death such as the OP's, it is a drastic change in TDS, which causes osmotic shock. Lethal levels are species dependent, but if that shock is great enough it can most definitely kill fish. Some people refer to this as pH shock, when in fact it's the shift in TDS that shocks the fish. I have seen this happen when tanks have been neglected for months/years, and then sudenly a do gooder comes along to help & performs a massive water change. The result is much along the lines of the OP's.

See post #3 in this thread from a few yrs ago for links that provide more info on TDS shock.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?415754-PH-shock-vs-Tds-Shock
 
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