For the sake of discussion...

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
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Well, taking a ride at the thread, if I could run 100% of new water every 24 hours, would I still need a filtration system?
Sorry if it looks like a stupid question, but just to make things clear to me.
I could do that by using natural flowing water .

Thank's!

Alexandre
I could also do it if I wanted but it would cost a bomb to heat the water

I do up my flow into the tank in the summer but you would still need big pumps to move water around so they may as well be pumping a sump


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quasar

Piranha
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Jul 16, 2012
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I don't think that's true if my rays only cost $10 I can guarantee you I would still take great care of them

It's not all about money


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its not the only factor, but im pretty sure it plays a part. Im not saying if a fish is $10 it doesnt deserve good care, but people are more likely to be more conscious of it if they paid $200 instead.
 

Drstrangelove

Potamotrygon
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Oct 21, 2012
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Very interesting idea.

For example, let's say that you fed the fish 4% of their daily food intake every hour and also had 4-5% of the water being dripped out every hour. Ammonia buildup in the tank would be constant after a point, and a small amount of BB would exist all over the tank to handle nitrogen conversion. If there were some plants growing in the tank, and some amount of purigien and a reasonable water circulation, I think there would be a chance you could get by with no added filtration.

However, people don't feed that way. Ammonia is not dispersed after feeding in one level amount for 24 hours: most is disbursed within a few hours. So, it will peak to dangerous or lethal levels with even an outflow of 4-5% within hours of feeding. Moreover, a lot of people won't remove water at that rate (96-120% per day.)

One could get by this way on fish that are non-stop browser types (herbivorous or sand sifters) or maybe if the feeding was set up as a small fraction each hour. Or obviously if a lot of water replaced each hour (40-50%.) That's what nature does basically along with keeping stocking levels far, far lower than in artificial environments. All the fish don't eat at the same time in a river and overall there aren't that many fish.

The most critical issue, imo, is the pattern of feeding people normally use. It's like a grocery store: if the only time people went to the grocery store was either 8 AM or 7 PM, every three days, there would be a disaster. There would not be enough registers, not enough employees to keep stock on the shelf, not enough parking spaces, not enough space for grocery baskets, so not enough baskets. And if the store hired more people they would have nothing to do between 10 AM and 7 PM so the employees would have to work a split shift or the store would lose money. It only "works" because people happen to use the store almost all day long every day.
 

Zooaqua

Feeder Fish
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Jul 18, 2014
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I could also do it if I wanted but it would cost a bomb to heat the water

I do up my flow into the tank in the summer but you would still need big pumps to move water around so they may as well be pumping a sump


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I understand.
But, if one could make it without the need to heat the water(consider tropical, hot weather), would it be safe without any filtration? I mean, 100% of the tank volume flowing at 24 hours period could keep rays safe without filtration?

Thank's once more!
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
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I understand.
But, if one could make it without the need to heat the water(consider tropical, hot weather), would it be safe without any filtration? I mean, 100% of the tank volume flowing at 24 hours period could keep rays safe without filtration?

Thank's once more!
As most Ray keepers have a turnover of 10x per hour I think you would need to pump in more than 100% in 24 hours

I try not to think into things to much and just stick to what I know works for me my methods may not suit someone else

I try to pump in as much FW as possible as I said 200 gal of RO 100 gal of hma water is my max in the winter but more hma in the summer as my RO is maxed out at 200 gal per day at 80 psi


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Fishwhore

Gambusia
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Apr 8, 2005
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I look at it this way. The filter is where you benifical bacteria lives and cultures the new water to be habitable for fish life. The tank and its bacteria surface area can handle it but not with huge water changes. You would get mini cycles. Can be done but with lots of risk. Would have to be planned very carefully and lots of water volume with smaller water changes.
 

cnel124

Jack Dempsey
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Jun 30, 2013
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I look at it this way. The filter is where you benifical bacteria lives and cultures the new water to be habitable for fish life. The tank and its bacteria surface area can handle it but not with huge water changes. You would get mini cycles. Can be done but with lots of risk. Would have to be planned very carefully and lots of water volume with smaller water changes.
Well, I've done it for two years now and I've put plenty of different kinds of fish through it, no problems whatsoever. I change 150 gallons a day, on a 180 gallon tank. See when you live in Bangkok, there's already plenty of bacteria perfect for fish and terrible for drinking.

Don't see what the risk is, I let 2 motoros (7 inch disks) and a Florida gar go for 7 weeks in a tank without a water change but minimal feeding since I was gone for the summer. Freshwater fish can get through some heavy stuff, you'll be very surprised if you come to Asia and see how many people here practice any kind of "cycle" on their tanks.
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
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Sep 19, 2005
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Well, I've done it for two years now and I've put plenty of different kinds of fish through it, no problems whatsoever. I change 150 gallons a day, on a 180 gallon tank. See when you live in Bangkok, there's already plenty of bacteria perfect for fish and terrible for drinking.

Don't see what the risk is, I let 2 motoros (7 inch disks) and a Florida gar go for 7 weeks in a tank without a water change but minimal feeding since I was gone for the summer. Freshwater fish can get through some heavy stuff, you'll be very surprised if you come to Asia and see how many people here practice any kind of "cycle" on their tanks.
Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right

The idea is to provide our fish the best water possible


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