This thread has turned into a false / bad information highway of 'facts'.
It just blows my mind that donating to zoos or rehoming or even selling isn't an option..... Screw what's best for the animals, apparently euthanasia is the only option.....
Reminiscent of the Nazi regime if you ask me. Maybe PITA and Fish and Wildlife need to get together and check their beliefs/values.
Makes me sick to even think this is really what happens, but it's the truth.
Rehoming is always the first option explored. Putting them down is NEVER a first option. Calling the guys Nazis is hardly even close to appropriate here.
You'd "THINK" fish and wildlife would be "animal" people, and they must be, cause it takes a special kind of animal to kick your door in, drag ice chests in and put all your rays on ice right in front of you.
People on this site don't take this situation seriously. You get caught they aren't going to do the humane thing for your rays and rehome them, they are going to kill your fish right in front of you.
And these pieces of crap frequent these forums......
Faced with this situation I'm going to jail..... After they taze me and drag me out of the house. I couldn't and wouldn't watch it. My choice is the last one. OPENLY FIGHT period.
They are 'animal people'. I'm not sure what situation you are talking about with kicking in doors and icing down animals right in front of you. I would love to hear more so I can explain what REALLY happened from the F/W stand point. It sounds like someone was warned and warned. It also sounds like someone was in violoation of the law (AKA a CRIMINAL). Who is to blame for those animals get put down, THE OWNER. They would not have been put down if he/she had been following the law. Like I said, putting animals done is never the go to option. Something else must have been going on in this situation. I've watched the gov't spend lots of money to keep confiscated animals alive. Many places are certified holding facilities for confiscastions in order to provide animals with the expert level care.
As for "these pieces of crap frequenting these forums" - I'm glad they do. They are enforcing the law. Don't like the laws, don't cry about it. Work with them to change the law.
Let me ask, as an outlander from the opposite side of the big dipper: is it really like you guys say? I mean if one does not flaunt the aro, or the sh or the whetever openly, keeps it in the confines of its tank, is there still a risk of discovery?
I mean, does the US really have the resources to go after rays? Does it soend tax payers money looking for Piranha in Armpit, Montana?
Seriously?
Miguel, what some here are ranting about are rare cases (if even a real cases). I've been involved for over a decade with ID'ing animals and helping out with local and federal enforcement. It's not even close to the picture being painted here. 99.99% of the time owners are talked to and given a warning with options. Extreme repeat offenses or outright willing black market activity gets the hammer.
Animal law enforcement is taken very seriously over here. People that have illegal can be found. The type that is willing to break the law for something illegal is generally the type to also talk about what they have - looking for attention from the activity.
Look at it this way guys. Many owners are VERY narrow mineded. They only care about their collection. Think on a larger scale. Why is the animal illegal? Is it endangered? Why do you think you are special vs an entire species being protected? Or maybe it's a human safety issue because it's a dangerous animal. What makes you think you are above that law? Why should one keeper be better than hundreds of thousands of other people being protected? Is it a threat if it gets out? Why do you think your little hobby is worth more than taking steps to protect our natural environment?
Also realize many places getting in trouble are not in it for the animals. They are in it for the profit. As soon as you start tossing dollar amounts around as losses and not animals lives as losses, you are looking at it the wrong way. That is why the laws are in place.
I can give a huge list of positive examples of the law working WITH owners.
One was even based on MFK several years ago. A guy posted about an illegal fish he had. He didn't want it put down if found and didn't realize he shouldn't have had it. I worked WITH the state agent and created paperwork to remove the animal from the house and give it a long term home. Nobody was fined, no animals died and the animal is still living today with expert care at a facility that will be able to house it for the rest of it's life.
I've taken in animals when owners called wanting to willingly surrender them. They called the local agents, got refered to me and they were rehoused. Agents will thank you for doing what is best for the animal and the law.
I've gotten called by agents preparing for a raid with the list of animals they might end up with to make sure they could end up in proper care prior to them showing up on site.
I've gotten called to a site to ID animals that were too rare or too odd ball to be in the usual books. It helps them make sure they are doing the job correctly and not grabbing animals that are ok to have.
So, PLEASE, think of more than yourself when talking about what is legal vs illegal. If you don't agree with the law, it still might be in place for the greater good. There are hundreds of F/W agents who will talk to you for hours about the how and why of certain laws. You just have to ask them. They are normal people. They love animals. Respect them, and you will be respected. Come off as someone who will give them problems, and expect to be treated as a thread to them. It's really that straight forward.
