Mantilla Rays?

DIDYSIS

DIDYSIS

Mantilla Stingray
MFK Member
Feb 9, 2012
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West Jordan Utah
Just me talking here and im not trying to say anyone is wrong or im omniscient in ray knowledge or anything just saying what I have thought about.

I know others have said that Ross says they are naturally occurring hybrids and others have said it. My thing is if that is so then why have we all not read some articles talking about stingray hybrids in the wild and what makes up a mantilla or other hybrid rays in the wild. Why would it be just this one ray and not other variations? Maybe marbles as well off the motoro or henlei or black diamonds. It is an interesting idea and thought and could be true or not i just don't honestly know I wish more information was available. Most claims are always backed up with some type of evidence and in this case I just have not really seen any posted to back up the claims. I wish a bunch of information was available which ever way it pointed we would have something to go off.

If anyone does have anything I would sure love to read it. I've looked a good bit and it's hard to find stuff overall on stingrays that is real research

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UnstoppableJayD

UnstoppableJayD

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DIDYSIS said:
Just me talking here and im not trying to say anyone is wrong or im omniscient in ray knowledge or anything just saying what I have thought about.

I know others have said that Ross says they are naturally occurring hybrids and others have said it. My thing is if that is so then why have we all not read some articles talking about stingray hybrids in the wild and what makes up a mantilla or other hybrid rays in the wild. Why would it be just this one ray and not other variations? Maybe marbles as well off the motoro or henlei or black diamonds. It is an interesting idea and thought and could be true or not i just don't honestly know I wish more information was available. Most claims are always backed up with some type of evidence and in this case I just have not really seen any posted to back up the claims. I wish a bunch of information was available which ever way it pointed we would have something to go off.

If anyone does have anything I would sure love to read it. I've looked a good bit and it's hard to find stuff overall on stingrays that is real research

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Click to expand...

There are lots of wild rays that show up that do not fit any "species" (ever take a look at a batch of motoro from peru) we know in captivity how easily they will hybridize and we have seen evidence of first generation hybrids looking like "mantillas". In addition one of the worlds authorities (ross) says they are. As far as other natural hybrids coming in, someone would have to study the overlapping species in the wild then cross that info with cases of oddballs showing up. They are still great rays.
 
DIDYSIS

DIDYSIS

Mantilla Stingray
MFK Member
Feb 9, 2012
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West Jordan Utah
Yep agreed. So many varieties, it's just interesting that out of every thing else the term natural hybrid has never been given as much as with mantillas. I guess I just hope to see the research some day. Or see other findings. Would like to know how Ross came to that classification. Much we don't know. Unfortunately I don't have the money to invest in stingray research and travel that area for a few years.

I honestly think I'll write Ross and see if I can get a response and any information he might have. Would be very interested to know. And if I get something I'll share.


UnstoppableJayD said:
There are lots of wild rays that show up that do not fit any "species" (ever take a look at a batch of motoro from peru) we know in captivity how easily they will hybridize and we have seen evidence of first generation hybrids looking like "mantillas". In addition one of the worlds authorities (ross) says they are. As far as other natural hybrids coming in, someone would have to study the overlapping species in the wild then cross that info with cases of oddballs showing up. They are still great rays.
Click to expand...


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gangster

gangster

Arapaima
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Apr 17, 2008
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If they are hybrids what are they are cross between? IMo they are another subspecies like motoro, henlei, pearl, castexi etc. i just dont see them being hybrids. What other sub species of ray is collected from the same area?


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scott s

scott s

Redtail Catfish
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Not sure of the original collection point of "Mantilla". Might help to see pics of what Dr. Ross was originally referring to as Mantilla. Then need someone collecting in the area to see if Mantilla is a species or just alot of uncommon pattern variations in the area that would cause one to lean toward hybrid.

There are alot of WC ray types that are imported with the name Mantilla...so species type or hybrid...who knows at this point.

What really matters is if you like the pattern.
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DIDYSIS

DIDYSIS

Mantilla Stingray
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Feb 9, 2012
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West Jordan Utah
I just wrote Stingray Biology. Will see if something comes back from them.

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F

FishDog

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One thing we are never good at is saying we do not know. As far as the mantilla goes who really knows. I have kept them before but not an expert. I do feel natural hybrids occur but personally feel it is rare. Stingrays have been around for millions of years so if they cross bred as much as one thinks then theoretically everything would be a mutt. The reason motoro is motoro is because it breeds with motoro in the wild. I highly doubt there are rivers with motoro and motoro only. I have had multiple litters of pups and produced hybrids myself. What I can tell you is if a male and female of the same kind are together they will choose each other over another species. The only way I have produced hybrids is by splitting up the like rays. If mantilla is a hybrid then it is pretty crazy how they have collected so many of them. Must be two types of rays that all they do is seek each other out to cross breed. If it is brown with a squiggly pattern it is called a mantilla for no other reason than we do not know and probably never will.

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