How many american cichlids can go into a 125g?

duanes · Aug 27, 2014

With cichlids, the question is not really how many will fit into a certain volume of water, but how many will coexist territorially on the given amount of floor space.
Whether the dithers are SDs or rainbows really doesn't change that territorial equation, as long as adequate filtration and water change schedule are adhered to.
And ceibals are not tropical cichlids, they prefer a cool down for a few months, that the other cichlids on your list do not. If you were to keep ceibals in the tank for 8 or 9 months, and then put it in an unheated tank for while, should be OK.
When I tried to keep ceibals at tropical temps all year, their health suffered. I have found keeping them in unheated tanks with other subtropicals, where temps drop into the low 60s works best.

jagster · Aug 27, 2014

id say once they are all full grown that tank will look a lot more full then it does now

MarineMike · Aug 27, 2014

Zathamos said:
Thanks for the response. I always see comments like this one above you and get nervous, but he doesn't sound like he is speaking from experience but rather theory or what he read so he just keeps Africans. If you had 8 10 inch cichlids in a 120, I am at 5 cichlds in a 125 long, which has more floor space.

I understand these are severums and a chocolate but a lone terror doesn't just go around the tank killing fish like a dovii or red devil might. Especially when he isn't being challenged.

you're right I don't have experience with any of the fish you currently have in your tank. I have jaguar and umbee cichlids which are not community type fish except in huge tanks. My jag pair have a180g to themselves because if I put anything else in the tank it will get torn up including catfish or pleco's that are the same size or larger. Each cichlid is an individual even of the same species or batch of fry. I gave an opinion based on research, conversations with others who've kept fish similar to yours and personal opinion. To me that stock list will be overstocked once they grow
more. You asked for advise so I answered with the best information I had avaliable. What you do with that advise and your tank is entirely up to you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

neutrino · Aug 27, 2014

1 EBJD, 1 Green Terror, 1 Red Spotted Severum, 1 Electric Blue Acara, 1 Firemouth.

OK, with that particular mix, the issue is not really tank space. It's more a question of will those particular fish get along as adults. And that's going to be as much about the individual temperaments of the fish as anything else. Just as an example, with two acara types-- green terror and electric blue-- they may or may not see each other as rivals, it's going to depend on gender of the two, individual temperament, etc.

Speaking from experience you can certainly fit more new world cichlids in the tank, it's a question of getting the mix of species and/or individuals right. Example-- I've had up to 8 rotkeil severums, a few angelfish, and a group of red head geos in a 135, just a slightly taller version of a 125. Total count of SA cichlids, 18, all adults, plus a 7" L001 pleco. It was a compatible mix and no problems whatsoever. As far as green terrors go, I've kept single large males (or young pairs) with a variety of other cichlids, from SA to Malawis, with no problems-- except wild green terrors that I've had, which were aggressive toward and intolerant of just about anything else in their tank. I've had green terrors and severums together, no problem, and once saw a green terror in a discus tank with no issue at all-- discus make it obvious when they're stressed or unhappy and these were fine, though that obviously won't always work with just any green terror, even tank raised can vary in temperament, whether gold or white seamed.

Also used to know someone with a 135 with a huge green terror, huge green severum, huge pacu and large pleco-- that's it, that was the tank, peaceful as could be.

So, again, just a question of the mix of fish and individuals. Put the wrong cichlids together and two is too much, but you can also potentially keep quite a few, depending what kind of tank you want.

Mythic Figment · Aug 28, 2014

Zathamos said:
I will try my very best to keep this simple, as I could easily write a paper on the subject. I have a 125 gallon tank (76x18x24). I currently haveCichlids) 1 EBJD, 1 Green Terror, 1 Red Spotted Severum, 1 Electric Blue Acara, 1 Firemouth. I also have 2 Pictus Catfish, 1 Senegal Bichir, and 6 Rainbowfish (Boesmani, Red Irian, Marci, Goyder, turquoise, yellow).

I will be doing rainbows instead of silver dollars or something larger so that I can have more tank space for the Cichlids. I was hoping to add at least 2 or 3 more cichlids, but possibly as many as 6 more. I am trying to keep everything under 12", but here is my list of what I am hoping to still be able to add to this community: 1 Red Ceibal cichlid, 1 Chocolate cichlid, 1 Orange Shoulder Severum/ or 1 Green Severum, 1 Nicaraguan cichlid, 1 Synspilum cichlid, 1 Geophagus Altifrons. It would also be nice to possibly add 2-4 more rainbow fish if possible. I really like the look of the Emerald and Trifasciata and the Parkinsons rainbowfish.

So what do you guys/gals think? Too much as is? Go ahead and add everything. Just add the smaller guys? Decide on what I like and pick half? I would really appreciate any and all feedback and opinions given.

At adult sizes, your current stock is maxed out. However, since you have small juveniles, you can definitely add more to the tank and rehome some cichlids as they grow and you choose which ones to remove. It will give you the opportunity to see who gets along, which will help in creating a peaceful setup of adults. I would warn that doing so will probably result in the lose of a few cichlids due to territorial aggression as they grow. If you're lucky, you might get them rehomed before such issues occur.

I will say your current stock and intended additions have a very wide range of sizes and temperaments. The smallest species I see will be about 5" and the largest could be as big as 16", so it's a very large size gap. You also have a range of temperament from very docile to very aggressive species (of course individual personalities could prove this point inaccurate).

The synspilum will get very big and will probably be very aggressive, which would go against the general temperament theme you have with most of the rest of the stock. Personally, I would avoid it if you intend to keep many of the mild mannered cichlids like severums, chocolates, geophagus , EBJD and acaras.

The red ceibals need a 3-4 month cooling period that mimics their natural environment. Simply having an unheated tank in a section of your home that gets down into the 50s-60s would do well for them. However, this means you would need to catch them to place in a separate, unheated tank for several months if you intended to keep them with the other fish in your stock during the warmer months. It would be easier to either skip them or dedicate an entire tank to their temperature needs.

The Nic could be an aggression problem if it ends up being male, which can grow to 10" of attitude.

EBJD are super slow growers who generally are pretty mild mannered, so if the other cichlids start to outpace it in the growth department, you might need to grow it out in its own tank until it can handle itself. They are also prone to sudden death up until they are 4"+, which is why many people choose to raise them in their own tanks with extra filtration where there is less likelihood of aggression towards the EBJD and water parameters can be managed easily.

Geophagus are best kept in groups of four or more. Since altifrons reach 10-12" each, a group would take up a very large amount of stock room, so you might want to skip them and go with a smaller growing geo, like tapajos 'red heads' or pindare.

As for adults in a 125, you will want to keep the stock at or below five 10-12" cichlids, ten 6" cichlids or twenty 3-4" cichlids. These numbers obviously depend entire on species and individual aggression levels.

My 125 final stock is two Aequidens diadema (10" max), one Heros notatus (10-12" max) and four Guianacara stergiosi (4-5" max). It's a solid stock with room to add one more 6-8" cichlid if I find one I just absolutely have to have, but I intend to keep it the way it is.

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neutrino · Aug 28, 2014

Mythic Figment said:
The synspilum will get very big and will probably be very aggressive, which would go against the general temperament theme you have with most of the rest of the stock. Personally, I would avoid it if you intend to keep many of the mild mannered cichlids like severums, chocolates, geophagus , EBJD and acaras.

The Nic could be an aggression problem if it ends up being male, which can grow to 10" of attitude.

+1 Missed the synspilum as a potential addition (was really tired when I posted), so not one of the scenarios I was thinking of, but I agree.

So, again, imo it comes down to what type of tank do you want, tank full of relatively peaceful or compatible fish, tank with a limited number of larger or more territorial fish, tank with groups of fish that like to be or can be in groups, trying to match a variety of individual fish of similar, compatible temperament, etc. Some fish of similar general shape, water level, etc. are compatible (for example, angels and severums or angels and discus or rams and some geo species ime) and some not so much (firemouth and geos, for example). Different scenarios would call for a different plan for how many fish; in some scenarios you could have more fish and in some scenarios even two would be too many. With groups of compatible species (or a group or two and a limited number of compatible singles of other species) you could more likely have more total fish than a mix of random individuals.

Zathamos · Aug 30, 2014

Thanks so much for all these responses. I will reply to each of you, but tomorrow. I am really tired so am just saying thank you and giving a quick reply, ill go further in depth tomorrow.

Although I love the look of the red ceibal and think he would look awesome next to the EBJD, the water temp thing I feel would become too much work. Also, I worry about adding fish once these guys all get full grown. I'd rather be taking someone out for some reason then trying to add a new full grown cichlid. That's where I worry something among the hierarchy of the tank may happen and cause problems. I want to try to stock this while they are all small so they can have a chance to become established together. So I will reluctantly so NO to the red ceibal.

The same story basically goes for the Syn. He will not only get huge, way bigger than anything else in the tank by 1/4 their size, but he will also probably be more aggressive than anything else in here and possibly kill off my EBJD indirectly through stress. He looks really cool, but this is not the tank for him. :cry:

I am feeling good about the chocolate as I dont think I have read anything negative about his addition, other than the tank possibly being fully stocked as it is now... He will get to be about as big if not a tiny bit bigger than the GT but much more peaceful. If I stick with no Syn and no Altifrons, the GT and the chocolate would be the only 12 inch cichlids with nothing larger than them in the tank, just sayin.

The Nicaraguan I am unsure of but am interested in, and would love a little more information on them if anyone has experience with them. I have been reading about them and see they can be territorial but tend to be on the more peaceful side of territorial cichlids. Most sites recommend not putting them with devils or texas', but says putting them with other semi aggresive SA/CA cichlids could work fine. I would mostly be concerned about the EBJD and the Senegal bichir with this kind of fish in the tank.

I also gotta note, although the firemouth is very pretty, he is not exactly a staple of the tank. I say this because someone mentioned the poor compatibility of a firemouth and this tank. Every cichlid and important fish in the tank was at least $20. The firemouth we got for 96 cents at my gfs work. He could easily be removed without much heartbreak but would like to see him try to thrive in this setting. He will max at about 5-6 inches but is one of the most aggressive-oriented fish in the tank. Convicts are held with very large and aggressive cichlids. I have read firemouths and convicts do well together and that FMs and GTs do well together. As long as he isnt messing with the EBJD or Bichir too much he can stay.

As for my original list : 1 Red Ceibal cichlid, 1 Chocolate cichlid, 1 Orange Shoulder Severum/ or 1 Green Severum, 1 Nicaraguan cichlid, 1 Synspilum cichlid, 1 Geophagus Altifrons. No to the red ceibal as i mentioned along with the Synspilum. The geo I guess is a question of can you have a lone Geo in a tank or not. If not than I wont do any Geo's and possibly look into something else. Or are Altifrons just special like that, that they need a group. Do red-heads, or surinamensis' (pearl) also need groups? I am only thinking of adding 1 maybe 2 at the most (geos). If this is a bad plan I will scratch it. I want to learn more about the Nicaraguan like I mentioned. Like the Acara/GT mix, it might or might not work, or is there almost a certainty of it being drastically different? As for severums. I have to ask a new question.

My red spotted is/has been very timid in the tank. Since the moment he hit it, he has been timid. Not necessarily of other fish, but of the environment or something. He took the firemouths spot in the 55gallon right away, a spot he had kinda claimed, so he isnt scared. But he was very shy, I never saw him much. Now in the 125, no more spot like what they had in the 55. No more complete hiding or claiming. So he stays in the corners with the bichir around the base of some bamboo plants. He hardly ever comes out. What could be the reason for this? Tank is heated, sits at 80 F. No moon lighting or anything at night. He is eating, but from his corner. Is this a severum thing, is the tank too fast swimming for him, too territorial? Would adding more severums help? Any ideas?

As soon as I get on tomorrow I will figure out how to get an image posted on here and get a picture of the community as it is. I will also reply more to some of these great responses, thanks so much for the input everyone. :grinno:

Zathamos · Aug 30, 2014

Also, I wanted to ask. I only have the one EBJD right now, he seems ok but a little small compared to everyone else. Do EBJDs do better with a small group? Instead of doing all these complicated fish/set-ups, I was thinking about adding one more EBJD. I'm sure it cant really do any harm, much of what ive read says they are not like GTs or very aggressive. So having more than one probably wont cause an issue between the 2 right? But will adding one more possibly help and in general make the 1 EBJD i have a little happier and more relaxed??? Would adding 2 have the same effect?? How about this same question about the Senegal bichir. Better in 2's than solo? Best alone? What do you guys think? It would be 2 senegal bichirs, I am not trying anything really crazy like a senegal and an ornate or endli. (senegals max at 10-12 inches tops)

Mythic Figment · Aug 30, 2014

Zathamos said:
Also, I wanted to ask. I only have the one EBJD right now, he seems ok but a little small compared to everyone else. Do EBJDs do better with a small group? Instead of doing all these complicated fish/set-ups, I was thinking about adding one more EBJD. I'm sure it cant really do any harm, much of what ive read says they are not like GTs or very aggressive. So having more than one probably wont cause an issue between the 2 right? But will adding one more possibly help and in general make the 1 EBJD i have a little happier and more relaxed??? Would adding 2 have the same effect?? How about this same question about the Senegal bichir. Better in 2's than solo? Best alone? What do you guys think? It would be 2 senegal bichirs, I am not trying anything really crazy like a senegal and an ornate or endli. (senegals max at 10-12 inches tops)

JDs aren't shoalers like geos, so adding more won't make any difference in a positive way. They aren't very aggressive either, so it shouldn't have any negative side effects either. Just remember that they are very sensitive and sometimes randomly drop dead for no apparent reason until they are about 4" and they grow much slower than the other fish you're interested in. This could cause a bullying problem later on when the more aggressive fish are 2 or more times the EBJD's size.

Zathamos said:
I am feeling good about the chocolate as I dont think I have read anything negative about his addition, other than the tank possibly being fully stocked as it is now... He will get to be about as big if not a tiny bit bigger than the GT but much more peaceful. If I stick with no Syn and no Altifrons, the GT and the chocolate would be the only 12 inch cichlids with nothing larger than them in the tank, just sayin.

The Nicaraguan I am unsure of but am interested in, and would love a little more information on them if anyone has experience with them. I have been reading about them and see they can be territorial but tend to be on the more peaceful side of territorial cichlids. Most sites recommend not putting them with devils or texas', but says putting them with other semi aggresive SA/CA cichlids could work fine. I would mostly be concerned about the EBJD and the Senegal bichir with this kind of fish in the tank.

I also gotta note, although the firemouth is very pretty, he is not exactly a staple of the tank. I say this because someone mentioned the poor compatibility of a firemouth and this tank. Every cichlid and important fish in the tank was at least $20. The firemouth we got for 96 cents at my gfs work. He could easily be removed without much heartbreak but would like to see him try to thrive in this setting. He will max at about 5-6 inches but is one of the most aggressive-oriented fish in the tank. Convicts are held with very large and aggressive cichlids. I have read firemouths and convicts do well together and that FMs and GTs do well together. As long as he isnt messing with the EBJD or Bichir too much he can stay.

As for my original list : 1 Red Ceibal cichlid, 1 Chocolate cichlid, 1 Orange Shoulder Severum/ or 1 Green Severum, 1 Nicaraguan cichlid, 1 Synspilum cichlid, 1 Geophagus Altifrons. No to the red ceibal as i mentioned along with the Synspilum. The geo I guess is a question of can you have a lone Geo in a tank or not. If not than I wont do any Geo's and possibly look into something else. Or are Altifrons just special like that, that they need a group. Do red-heads, or surinamensis' (pearl) also need groups? I am only thinking of adding 1 maybe 2 at the most (geos). If this is a bad plan I will scratch it. I want to learn more about the Nicaraguan like I mentioned. Like the Acara/GT mix, it might or might not work, or is there almost a certainty of it being drastically different? As for severums. I have to ask a new question.

My red spotted is/has been very timid in the tank. Since the moment he hit it, he has been timid. Not necessarily of other fish, but of the environment or something. He took the firemouths spot in the 55gallon right away, a spot he had kinda claimed, so he isnt scared. But he was very shy, I never saw him much. Now in the 125, no more spot like what they had in the 55. No more complete hiding or claiming. So he stays in the corners with the bichir around the base of some bamboo plants. He hardly ever comes out. What could be the reason for this? Tank is heated, sits at 80 F. No moon lighting or anything at night. He is eating, but from his corner. Is this a severum thing, is the tank too fast swimming for him, too territorial? Would adding more severums help? Any ideas?

As soon as I get on tomorrow I will figure out how to get an image posted on here and get a picture of the community as it is. I will also reply more to some of these great responses, thanks so much for the input everyone.

A chocolate should be fine. It will be at the same size or slightly larger than the GT. Keep an eye out for aggression because chocolates are pretty spineless. They pout like oscars do when they aren't happy about something, so it should be easy to tell if something is wrong. You probably won't have an issue, but better to keep an eye on it than randomly come home to a dead fish.

Nics mostly show aggression through conspecifics. The only real backlash I've ever seen from Nics to other species is during breeding. If you want a Nic, I would highly recommend getting a female since they stay smaller and are less aggressive than males.

A firemouth might get along fine in that tank, but as a general rule, they are mostly bark with very little bite. Just another fish to keep an eye on and make sure it isn't getting bullied.

Geos NEED groups when juveniles (less than 1/2 their adult sizes). But there is debate as to whether line adults do well or not. Health-wise there isn't really a difference, but a lot of people report their geos are more active and entertaining when kept in groups while lone geos tend to just cruise around without not doing much. Red heads, surinamensis and altifrons all qualify for this. However, "pearl" geos are what are called 'Geophagus' brasiliensis and they are not true geos. They are much more aggressive (we're talking GT levels here) and get to be big 10-12" beasts. Personally speaking, I would pass on adding one to your tank since you already have a large aggressive cichlid with the GT.

Severum tend to be pretty shy when small. I've had my notatus since he was 0.5" and he is pushing 4" now. He is just now coming around to me and I expect him to get even more personable as he grows. They are definitely a late blooming type of cichlid that will pay off in the long run. Adding more sevs won't make any positive difference. Sevs aren't nearly as conspecific as other species. They lip lock and display to one another to compete for dominance in establishing their hierarchy. Once the hierarchy is set, there are very rarely any kind of confrontations between them.

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Zathamos · Aug 30, 2014

neutrino said:
OK, with that particular mix, the issue is not really tank space. It's more a question of will those particular fish get along as adults. And that's going to be as much about the individual temperaments of the fish as anything else. Just as an example, with two acara types-- green terror and electric blue-- they may or may not see each other as rivals, it's going to depend on gender of the two, individual temperament, etc.

Speaking from experience you can certainly fit more new world cichlids in the tank, it's a question of getting the mix of species and/or individuals right. Example-- I've had up to 8 rotkeil severums, a few angelfish, and a group of red head geos in a 135, just a slightly taller version of a 125. Total count of SA cichlids, 18, all adults, plus a 7" L001 pleco. It was a compatible mix and no problems whatsoever. As far as green terrors go, I've kept single large males (or young pairs) with a variety of other cichlids, from SA to Malawis, with no problems-- except wild green terrors that I've had, which were aggressive toward and intolerant of just about anything else in their tank. I've had green terrors and severums together, no problem, and once saw a green terror in a discus tank with no issue at all-- discus make it obvious when they're stressed or unhappy and these were fine, though that obviously won't always work with just any green terror, even tank raised can vary in temperament, whether gold or white seamed.

Also used to know someone with a 135 with a huge green terror, huge green severum, huge pacu and large pleco-- that's it, that was the tank, peaceful as could be.

So, again, just a question of the mix of fish and individuals. Put the wrong cichlids together and two is too much, but you can also potentially keep quite a few, depending what kind of tank you want.

Im very happy to read something like this basically saying Im ok to add more, possibly up to 8 more, with out much issue. Great info on the terror, and thats pretty much what I have read online about them. My terror doesnt seem very aggressive right now, more assertive Id say, but he leaves everyone alone. The GT love the bottom and back parts of the tank primarily while the acara has been pretty much a front of the tank fish, so far. Neither seem to mind each other and I have seen them swimming together a few times. The acara and the EBJD seem to hang out nearby each other too. The firemouth is doing his own thing and seems fine. Im thinking no on the Syn tho so that will allow alot more room and variety. Im thinking chocolate for sure, i love the pacman face and their colors, and I am going to look into the Nics further. Geos I may just end up not trying. Thanks again for the great response.

Any ideas on Senegal bichirs? I have 1, but am thinking of a 2nd if no geos, do they enjoy having more than one bichir in the tank or are they a lone wolf type better by themselves?


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How many american cichlids can go into a 125g?

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