DIY down and dirty 90g/40b sump on the cheap (ballin' on a budget)

fishguy306

Peacock Bass
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I have considered it a bit, the only thing holding me back is that I like being able to see into the sump from the side. It wouldnt be the end of the world to use a tote, but I was just hoping to avoid it. That said, it likely would solve my issue if I did switch. Anyway, sorry for hijacking your post, I dont see many others around here going with a herbie
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
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Jul 29, 2014
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No thats quite alright. I'm not sure why it isn't more popular. Ive got a little way to go before I can start testing my plumbing. I'm hoping the pair of 1" drains can handle the mag 9.5 I figure it'll be around 6-700 gph at head pressure.

I noticed earlier that you are opposed to having a trickle of water in the emergency. I'm hoping I can get it dialed in with a dry 2nd drain. Having straight drains should make things more consistent.

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fishguy306

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It seems over on the reef forums the herbie and bean styles are much more popular, I get the feeling that they just havent quite caught on with freshwater set ups. It seems most of the latest ideas and styles start with the reef guys and slowly make their way to the freshwater side. That said, the herbie method has been around 10+ years, not sure why it isn't bigger.

I went with a laguna max flow 1350 on mine. At the moment it isn't throttled back at all, but it does have four 90 degree bends and loc line on the return so I'm sure flow is cut down a good amount. I do need to adjust my drain a bit, however it has no issues taking all of the water through the single pipe. The overflow actually has the most issues keeping up, not the siphon. At the moment it is a little too closed off so I am getting a bit of a trickle down the dry line.

My biggest reason for wanting the second line dry is just for safety. I plan to have a couple plants in the tank and should the line clog I dont want the emergency line to have any issues taking all of the flow. Add that to the fact one line has no issues taking it all down and the set up makes more noise with water in the dry line and it just makes sense to use only one of the two.
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
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Jul 29, 2014
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Depending how things go I'll be enlarging the teeth on thr megaflow overflow. Im not planning on having any plants. (Except pothos In the sump) plant debris are a big problem in my planted tank. I want to do plants but my African cichlids are really destructive. Hopefully the lack of plants will keep my overflow safer.

I feel like the herbie is safer than running 2 durso style standpipes @ around 350gph each. Theres no safety in redundancy if both drains are being used.

Got started on the doors. Ive never worked with cabinet hinges or anything before.

uploadfromtaptalk1408721167899.jpg
I use only the latest and greatest high tech precision tools.

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I also landed for FREE a sheet of 1/4" acrylic 3ftx5.5ft I have a second sheet to pick up that wouldn't even fit in my car it was so big. I've been doing oddjobs on the weekend for a friend who inherited his father's derelict warehouse of industrial supplies, basically a dumping ground.

Ive got all the materials I need for constructing stuff in the sump.

This acrylic is too thick for me to score and snap, out comes the die grinder with a cutting wheel. Lol



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mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
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No im not dead! Life has been busy. Finally got cracking on the logistics of plumbing this bad larry.

Doing a 1.5" return off the mag 9.5 which branches into a 'T' at the top of the tank into a pair of 1" spraybars. I've got about $75 in pvc at this point, which I assumed would be inexpensive compared to the rest of the build. Once you get into 1.5" things get pricey. Especially unions and ballvalves. I wasted alot of gas finding my king brothers ball valves. They are smooth and buttery just the way I like em.
After countless weekends fabricating automotive exhaust systems I haven't really learned from my mistakes with pipe fitting. I'm still unsure if I should dry fit the pvc pipe in the basment and glue it outside or just be a champ and do it all in place to ensure ive got no fitment issues. Pvc cement is some angry stuff. I may take the safe route, at the expense potentially making a mistake with the plumbing. Wish me luck

uploadfromtaptalk1409290331895.jpg

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noside

Gambusia
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Not criticizing but I have a few comments, questions before you get started since I've been doing a lot of trial and error builds myself.

Why are you using 1.5" pipe when the Mag 9.5 only has a 3/4" outlet?
In my doings I've noticed the Mag drive pumps operate under a higher pressure then a lot of the smaller pumps out there, and I think that if you drop in pressure with a larger diameter pipe you will not net an increase in flow but possibly lower flow since the pump might not be able to make pressure.
The only place I like to oversize on is my ball valves. If you ever look down an open ball valve you'll notice that they are actually about .25" ID smaller then what the coinciding female fitting is measured to be. So if you have an entirely 1.5" plumbed system the 1.5" valve is going to be the bottleneck,for this I go with the 2" valve and bushings.

The Mag 9.5 IMO might not be enough on its own. If you are looking at around 5' head even with minimal bends the Mag9.5 is then only rated to about 750gph which is on the low side for a 90 gallon.

You are going to be tight on room if you are planning on using the 14" x 12" sterilite plastic drawers for your drip tower in the 40B. I wouldn't put pothos free floating or any where near the same open water section as the pump, it will suck up the roots I have the exact setup on one of my tanks and all I can toss in after the tower is a couple bags of carbon before things start getting to close to the pump.

Lastly Dry fit doesn't really help when you are doing PVC IMO. There is always 1/16 of an inch extra that doesn't get accounted for until you use the glue. Its not that bad the easiest way IMO draw yourself a diagram properly measure and plan out your dimensions. Each fitting takes the ID of the pipe in length to inset. IE: if you use 3/4" pvc then it take 3/4" of pipe to properly seat, 1.5" fitting should have 1.5" of insert-able pipe length. Use a chop saw so you have clean straight cuts and use more purple less clear you won't have a mess to deal with.
 

fishguy306

Peacock Bass
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Why are you using 1.5" pipe when the Mag 9.5 only has a 3/4" outlet?
In my doings I've noticed the Mag drive pumps operate under a higher pressure then a lot of the smaller pumps out there, and I think that if you drop in pressure with a larger diameter pipe you will not net an increase in flow but possibly lower flow since the pump might not be able to make pressure.
The Mag instructions actually call for a 1.5" pipe to be used. It will put out a significant amount of water more by stepping the pipe up to 1.5".

and use more purple less clear you won't have a mess to deal with.
In this application I actually wouldn't worry about the purple primer. The PVC will hold just fine without it, there isnt enough pressure going through our systems to bother with it. You'll get a much cleaner looking finish by skipping it, you wont have purple all over the place and running down your pipes. Just my thoughts and experience.

Parts are looking good! Where did you pick up the gate valve? How much did that bad boy set you back if you dont mind me asking? I'm close to giving up on my ball valve for the overflow, I just dont want to spend a fortune on a new valve.
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
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Jul 29, 2014
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The mag 9.5 is rated at 950 gph not 750, im estimating conservatively a 600gph flow at head height about 5ft. As per manufacturer's flow curve and real world numbers. If I get 500gph after all the friction loss of plumbing I will be happy.
Turnover wont be of the utmost importance since im running some modular filtration in the sump which is not dependent on the falling water from the drains alone.

I had originally planned on the 1.5" branching into a pair of 3/4" spraybars but after some digging I found that a 3/4 + 3/4 pipe does not equal the same inner diameter of a single 1.5" pipe. Its significantly smaller. So I went with 1".. I figure the friction loss in the bends going to the spray bar will be slightly negated by the slower water velocity traveling through a larger pipe. Im not looking for a Jetstream coming out of the spraybars I just want good flow around the tank as opposed to a single locline nozzle.

The manual does call for a 1.5" pipe, this confused me but after seeing how all the saltwater guys were running oversized returns I finally gave it the confidence to go ahead with it.

Ive got a huge amount of space in the stand, basically the main reason I built one versus a store-bought. Im hoping my measurements are correct and ill have enough room. If the drawers are too much of a tight fit I'll man up and make some custom ones out of acrylic. uploadfromtaptalk1409327736541.jpg

Thats the inside with a 24" level standing up right for scale.

I snagged the gate valve off amazon. It cost about $10. Reviews were good so I bit. Thanks for the tip on primer. Ive read before that it doesn't do a whole lot, many plumbers dont use it

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mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
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Jul 29, 2014
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Also thanks for the tip on the length of pvc slip joints correlating to the diameter of the pipe. I never realized that. I also didnt mean to sound so defensive either.

The max flow for the aqueon mega flow weir is about 600 gph if I remember right. I dont want to enlarge the teeth of the weir if I dont have to. I dunno. I still have a marineland nj1800 utility pump new in box. Rated at 475gph. if I Want More flow I may just add a second Pump. Then im safe if one of my return pumps decides to quit on me.


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noside

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 6, 2014
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The Mag instructions actually call for a 1.5" pipe to be used. It will put out a significant amount of water more by stepping the pipe up to 1.5".
I actually didn't know this so I'm glad I asked about it! I've been using a Mag 7 on a 55 african with only 1/2" plumbed where I've been getting about what was estimated by the manufacturer in terms of flow so I assumed that going larger would only decrease pressure but maintain the same flow or adversely effect flow. Was trying to save you some money on those 1.5" fittings I know prices go up exponentially after 3/4".

The mag 9.5 is rated at 950 gph not 750, im estimating conservatively a 600gph flow at head height about 5ft. As per manufacturer's flow curve and real world numbers. If I get 500gph after all the friction loss of plumbing I will be happy.
Turnover wont be of the utmost importance since im running some modular filtration in the sump which is not dependent on the falling water from the drains alone.


Ive got a huge amount of space in the stand, basically the main reason I built one versus a store-bought. Im hoping my measurements are correct and ill have enough room. If the drawers are too much of a tight fit I'll man up and make some custom ones out of acrylic.


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I was just concerned because I know my Africans are dirty I have them on a 10-12x turnover on the sump and where its enough biologically the mechanical aspect would not keep up with the messy eating and copious amounts of waste. I'd like to see more like 15x turnover on a sump only setup for Africans. Its just manageable IMO with the around 500gph sump and a AC70 loaded with foam.

I'm only commenting on the dimensions and space of the sump because I've literally spent the last 6 months just trial and error building the same exact thing! for a slightly larger tank its a 135 gallon super tall over a 40B wet dry, everything DIY'ed.

I won't whore up your thread with pics but here's a link. https://flic.kr/p/oG8239

Also thanks for the tip on the length of pvc slip joints correlating to the diameter of the pipe. I never realized that. I also didnt mean to sound so defensive either.



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Its your project any one will be defensive. I sound negative by nature because I am a strategic engineering analyst so I'm paid to look at the bad or what could go wrong and how to avoid it. Not everyone can look beyond the positive! Just want to try to help at the same time learn something here and there myself. That's why we all ask questions :thumbsup:
 
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