Clay cave DIY?

Ninjouzata

Gambusia
MFK Member
Aug 13, 2013
313
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Georgia, USA
Ooh I see. I think if you seal it it's no issue, right? But when we broke a small piece off exposing the quikrete and my father did not want to have to re-seal it and wait again we left it alone. I had a look around and it seems some SW keepers use it and after letting it sit in water for a while it stops raising the hardness. I'm not sure if that's the case but I have not noticed anything and our water tests as very soft. I'm not sure if that helps but..yeah. ><

You're welcome, the person who makes them is really nice. I knew he didn't have any big enough for the loaches just thought they are a good representation of something a little more natural looking made out of clay :D Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
 

Psylant

Fire Eel
MFK Member
May 24, 2011
1,079
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Canada
Ooh I see. I think if you seal it it's no issue, right? But when we broke a small piece off exposing the quikrete and my father did not want to have to re-seal it and wait again we left it alone. I had a look around and it seems some SW keepers use it and after letting it sit in water for a while it stops raising the hardness. I'm not sure if that's the case but I have not noticed anything and our water tests as very soft. I'm not sure if that helps but..yeah. ><

You're welcome, the person who makes them is really nice. I knew he didn't have any big enough for the loaches just thought they are a good representation of something a little more natural looking made out of clay :D Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
There's a decent sized chocolate pleco in the tank that I fear would strip the sealant off rather quickly. I already have very hard tap water with a pH of 8+, I don't want to raise it more if I can help it! I'm hoping to do this project the weekend of August 9th if all goes well. I need to start looking around for rocks I can press into the clay and remove again to stamp with various textures I want. I think I'll use lava rock.
 

coolkeith

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2005
403
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I'm worried about how the quikcrete would change the water chemistry. I would like to use something as inert and natural as possible, which is why I thought clay might be a good choice.
IME, the concrete ends up sealing itself with nitrifying bacteria and/or algae after a few weeks or months, and it stops leaching. Only problem is that concrete is rather brittle and small pieces can break off, thus the need to seal it with something like epoxy resin or Kylon Fusion.
 

coolkeith

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2005
403
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Detroit
I do have a few tips about working with clay. I took a ceramics class back in college as an art elective, so I know a little about it.

Working with clay isn't as easy as it sounds. There's a lot of trial and error involved when you don't follow textbook procedures. Making a cave with bends and curves will be very tricky. Wet clay easily loses it's shape and needs to be well supported. Gravity always wins.

If the clay cave is too wet or has any unseen air pockets, it will crack/break/explode when it's fired in the kiln. The raw clay when you 1st get it will need to be fully wedged to remove any air voids from it. You'll need to google "wedging clay" to learn how it's done. There's some video's on Youtube I'm sure.

You'll also want to work with the clay in an clean dust free environment. If you have pets like dogs or cats, that could be a real problem. You'll want to cover the clay project with plastic each day when your done working with it, so that it doesn't dry out too quickly or get dirty. Wet clay is like a magnet for lint, hair, and dust particles.

The finished clay project will need to sit for about a week or two to air dry out. The drying out process should be done in some type of ventilated cabinet or box, where it won't be disturbed or contaminated.


There are two basic techniques I know that might work for building a cave type structure: Slab and Coil construction. There may be other methods out there that I don't know about.

With slab construction you use a rolling pin to flatten out the clay, then you wrap it around a form, wet the edges with slip (which is slurry paste made up of with water and clay), then pinch the seams together. Let it air dry a few days. Then remove the form.

With coil construction you roll out the clay with your hands until it forms a rope/snake, then build a coil upwards, while adding slip to the seams, and smoothing them out with fingers or tool. For bends and curves this might be a useful technique.

A mistake would be to take small chunks of clay and piecing them to together into the shape you want, where you'd leave small air voids between all the pieces. This would cause the project to fall apart when it's fired. The cave needs a strong foundation, which is why I'd recommend either the slab and coil construction techniques. The detail work is then built around that foundation. It takes lots of practice to learn how to do the detail work correctly. I've had many ceramic projects fail because I tried to add too much detail, which ended up falling apart in the kiln. There should be some videos on youtube that can help.
 

Psylant

Fire Eel
MFK Member
May 24, 2011
1,079
5
68
Canada
Thank you! This is the kind of info and experience I was looking for. I'll have to look up some of the tips you mentioned. I will be making this at their pottery studio, so I will have a clean environment, the tools I will need, and some advice as I go from the owners. I want to try to get it built in one sitting, and then it can dry/get fired after that.

I was imagining something like 1/4 of a pipe, with varying "radius" of that 1/4 pipe to make it more natural, if that makes sense. The flat side would lean against the bottom of the tank, and back wall. I can put some "pillars" in the cave if it requires some support pre-firing. I'm sure the loaches won't care! If I get adventurous I might wrap it around the overflow box, or at least part of it. I might be able to build a structure out of spray foam or something to use your "slate" method, and then just texture the outside of the clay to make it more natural looking.


I do have a few tips about working with clay. I took a ceramics class back in college as an art elective, so I know a little about it.

Working with clay isn't as easy as it sounds. There's a lot of trial and error involved when you don't follow textbook procedures. Making a cave with bends and curves will be very tricky. Wet clay easily loses it's shape and needs to be well supported. Gravity always wins.

If the clay cave is too wet or has any unseen air pockets, it will crack/break/explode when it's fired in the kiln. The raw clay when you 1st get it will need to be fully wedged to remove any air voids from it. You'll need to google "wedging clay" to learn how it's done. There's some video's on Youtube I'm sure.

You'll also want to work with the clay in an clean dust free environment. If you have pets like dogs or cats, that could be a real problem. You'll want to cover the clay project with plastic each day when your done working with it, so that it doesn't dry out too quickly or get dirty. Wet clay is like a magnet for lint, hair, and dust particles.

The finished clay project will need to sit for about a week or two to air dry out. The drying out process should be done in some type of ventilated cabinet or box, where it won't be disturbed or contaminated. I

There are two basic techniques I know that might work for building a cave type structure: Slab and Coil construction. There may be other methods out there that I don't know about.

With slab construction you use a rolling pin to flatten out the clay, then you wrap it around a form, wet the edges with slip (which is slurry paste made up of with water and clay), then pinch the seams together. Let it air dry a few days. Then remove the form.

With coil construction you roll out the clay with your hands until it forms a rope/snake, then build a coil upwards, while adding slip to the seams, and smoothing them out with fingers or tool. For bends and curves this might be a useful technique.

A mistake would be to take small chunks of clay and piecing them to together into the shape you want, where you'd leave small air voids between all the pieces. This would cause the project to fall apart when it's fired. The cave needs a strong foundation, which is why I'd recommend either the slab and coil construction techniques. The detail work is then built around that foundation. It takes lots of practice to learn how to do the detail work correctly. I've had many ceramic projects fail because I tried to add too much detail, which ended up falling apart in the kiln. There should be some videos on youtube that can help.
 

Psylant

Fire Eel
MFK Member
May 24, 2011
1,079
5
68
Canada
Cracked into a million pieces after not hearing back from the studio for 2 weeks... Going to explore other avenues.
 

convict360

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Dec 9, 2013
4,499
1,874
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Scotland
Sorry to hear the project failed. I'm eager to see if you find an alternative, as I'll be picking up clown loaches soon; as well as needing a cave for my Blood Parrots to grow into

Sent from my Nexus 5 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

coolkeith

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2005
403
10
48
52
Detroit
Sorry to hear that clay failed. I recently made some 1/4 pipes with Quikwall Concrete.

I built a form with Melamine Board, stripes of plywood, an 8" diameter concrete tube, and silicone caulk. I painted the tube and plywood stripes with black Krylon fusion, and lubed the form and tube with silicone spray as a release agent.










I sealed and fiber-glassed over these 1/4 pipe structures to my plywood tank because I wanted rounded corners, but I might make something similar for my loach caves, perhaps some half pipes. I may use a 10" and 8" concrete tubes as the forms, then just fill with Quickwall Concrete.
 
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