Gar ID Quiz - ID the fish - The Quizzes & Answers

The original quiz is still open!! this thread is a duplicate with just the quizzes and answers for quick & easy refering.

CLICK HERE for the running thread.

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Quiz 1

we've been raising a variety of specimens recently and so i thought i would open up a new gar quiz. if you make a guess, please explain your reasoning so that we can all learn!

here you go (see attached) --
--solomon



thanks to everyone for their responses...some great guesses and good use of fish ID methods in coming to your conclusions (even if an answer was not correct, it still helps to consider all the details from the various species, etc).

the "answer" that we have for you is shortnose gar. i put that in quotes because we (Richard, Jeremy -friend of mine who has helped us with gar work in the past-, and myself) sampled this fish in an area where both shortnose and spotted gars were found side-by-side...there was also spawning activity there and YOY of both species.

now, the best method is..."if you hear hoof-beats behind you, don't think zebra", so we're going with shortnose gar. it has some unusual features in pattern and morphology, but we are finding that gars are highly variable based on region and population and environment BUT there is definitely the chance for hybridization from this area.

only time will tell, as we can only guess as to what a spotted x shortnose cross would look like (we used to joke - "a Florida!"). chances are, the shorties from this area just look different as juveniles, an adult that i was able to net looked like a standard shortnose.

this fish has grown quite a bit...starting off around 2.5" at the very end of May and currently pushing past 8". will get more pics in the near future...as well as another story as to why this particular fish is special.

onward to the next quiz...--
--solomon

PS - traits to look for:

- snout too long to be: gator, Cuban
- snout too short to be: longnose

- body too elongate to be a tropical of this same size (t-gar would have a stockier body); also caudal, dorsal, anal fins have spots...not striations one sees in Cuban & tropical (gator to some extent).

leaves: spotted, FL, shortnose

- we kind of have to go with pattern at this point...spotted and FL juveniles look pretty similar and have green spotting and usually an olive dorsal stripe...shortnose gars (especially by this size) do not have that pattern.

- posterior lateral markings show some of the dappled black lines we see on larger juvenile and some adult shortnoses.

- as some people noted, the snout of YOY shortnose gars is actually much longer than that of adults.

setting aside hybrid theories...answer would be shortnose gar.

here are some comparison photos:

juvenile spotted gar of similar size:


juvenile tropical gar of similar size:


juvenile FL gar of similar size:


juvenile shortnose of similar size but different pattern:

Quiz 2



ok here are the answers...this was a tough one given the particular difficulty in ID'ing two closely related species AND also a hybrid:

starting from the top left and going clockwise -

1 - longnose gar
2 - crocodile gar "type II" (A. spatula x L. oculatus) - this guy changed pattern quite a bit a few times while growing.
3 - YOY Florida gar
4 - Florida gar (~1-2 years old)
5 - shortnose gar

BONUS: the tail in the lower left belongs to a Synodontis eupterus catfish...it was from this setup that i found that synos will also suck gar slime if they are hungry enough (the catfish was fine with the gars for a long time and worked well as a clean-up feeder, but i was out in the field for a while and he must have gotten a little hungrier). Syno was removed and i now advise others against it the same as plecos and flagtails.

ID process (main things to look for) :
1 - very long snout, elongate and slender body (relative to other gars)

2 - croc II - this is a tough one, unless you've seen pics of the fish before or know anything about crocs, you probably didn't guess croc II. stocky body suggests Atractosteus genus, but snout is more elongate than any of those species. pattern is dorsally a mix of spotted and some blotchiness of a YOY gator, lateral the pattern is almost completely random for a gar. the next color phase after this was the almost black & white "dalmatian" pattern.

3 - YOY Florida gar...at this time (photo was from 2005) we didn't have solid comparisons of true spotted gars...fish that looked like this were all from LFS and we now know they are FL gars.

4 - older FL gar...standard pattern you see on most LFS FL gars

5 - body slender, but not as much as longnose...snout long and slender, but not as long as longnose. pattern (or lack thereof) also indicates shortnose gar.

thanks to everyone who participated...lots of good guesses, and everyone at least got a couple ID's correct!

i believe xander has a new one to post, so go ahead and post to this thread to keep things rolling.--
--solomon

just to show you the contrast in pattern as the croc II developed, compare the quiz photo with this one (just a few months later) in the "dalmatian" phase:



--solomon

Quiz 3




ok here are my answers:
1 - shortnose
2 - Cuban
3 - Cuban
4 - Florida
5 - shortnose
6 - Florida
7 - Florida
8 - Florida
9 - Cuban (melanistic)
10 - longnose

logic for these conclusions:
1 - shortnose - this is probably the toughest or second toughest ID in the bunch. we don't have the head of the fish or this would be easy. the caudal peduncle is a little thicker than what we see in a lot of shortnoses, but i'm writing that off to variability and captivity issues. the caudal fin is also shredded and almost looks like it has Cuban-esque striations, but there are two other issues that suggest shortnose to me - the body is much more slender than a Cuban...and we can guess that since the other Cubans in this tank are big and fat, this fish should also look that way if it were Cuban. also the length of the pelvic fins...shortnose gars are really the only gars with really long paired fins, and those pelvics suggest shortnose to me.

2 - Cuban - easy ID on 2 & 3 as Cubans if you look at the keys or any of the Cuban gar photos from members.

3 - Cuban
4 - Florida - this is just what a typical, fat, captive FL gar looks like. spotted gars at this size will have a somewhat different looking pattern and body proportions. that and we have very little evidence of confirmed spotted gars coming out of Asia at this point, and comparing them to the wild spots...Florida gar seems like the logical ID.

5 - shortnose - note the shortnose characters i mentioned for #1; we also see the head, which has a short snout but not terribly broad like Atractosteus genus. body also virtually pattern-less and slender.

6 - Florida - see earlier FL ID for 6,7,8
7 - Florida
8 - Florida
9 - Cuban (melanistic) - this is probably the toughest of the bunch...and i gave some clues earlier when i was talking about #9. this fish can only be a tropical or Cuban gar as a gator would have a different look to it in head/snout proportions. it's clearly Atractosteus based on the stout body and very broad snout. i think Cuban because the snout just looks Cuban to me...hard to explain, but it seems broader than what we see on most tropical gars. i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it were a melanistic (or just darker tropical...as we have seen males tend to get upon maturity) tropical, but i'm going with melanistic Cuban for my answer.

10 - longnose - longnoses typically don't show this pattern at this size, but they are also the only gars i have seen that show this type of pattern at this size. also note the very slender body and longer thinner caudal peduncle. even without the snout this fish indicates longnose gar on several levels.

i'm open to others' thoughts, hope those comments help!--
--solomon

***was actually writing this while you guys posted after my answers...hopefully this fills in the logic/reasoning from my end..***

Quiz 4

ok sorry for the delay in posting, here are the answers; again, thanks to everyone who participated!

Gar #1



Gar #2



ANSWERS:

gar 1 - tropical gar

comments: i'll be the first to admit this is a really tough ID. i struggled to look for reasons why it was a t-gar and not a FL gar...they look very similar at this size, but there is some difference in snout width and the eyes. very tough as this individual doesn't show the frequently seen "trident" on juvie trops.
FL gars and spotted gars should have some dorsal spotting, this fish lacks this. longnose gars have a longer snout, as would a shortnose gar...shortnoses also generally lack this bold of patterning and their snouts are slightly longer and slimmer at this size. i'm working more on some eye differences between species as this also seems different, not only between genera, but also among species (richard, we need to chat about this on the next field trip...or perhaps i'm just "seeing" things ).

one can rule out Cuban gar and alligator gar as pattern doesn't match a juvie Cuban, and snout is much longer and slimmer than a juvie gator gar.
it also lacks the...

WHITE STRIPE which narrows GAR #2 down to Cuban or alligator gar. except for tropical, other members of Atractosteus genus have a characteristic dorsal white stripe when they are very small. in gators this can often be broken up by a more camouflage pattern, in Cubans it's pretty plain. that white stripe (and this info is found online in some places if you were looking around thoroughly) quickly narrows the fish down to Cuban and gator and rules out all others. therefore Gar #2 is an early stage YOY Cuban gar.

will post comparison photos soon. thanks to all who participated...i'll get the next quiz up soon!--
--solomon

PS-- and by learning experience, i didn't mean you all got it wrong, i meant we all learned a bit more on diagnosing gars with minimal info...i learn from this like everyone else

examples of the white stripe on Cuban and gator gars...it quickly fades as the juveniles get even several inches long, so we seldom see it on LFS gators since they are already too large.

here is a shot of an early stage gator gar juvenile showing the white stripe and a somewhat exaggerated camouflage pattern. this is from the bayousphere research lab in Louisiana:


http://www.nicholls.edu/bayousphere/...oup/index.html

here is a shot of the typical size we see YOY gators in LFS...you can see the faded white stripe (really only remains on the dorsum of snout) :


this shot is from some juvenile Cubans we brought in 3 years ago...several pics in this thread and a lot of background info if you want to read up on our previous work with YOY Cubans:

THREAD:
http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/i...pic=35816&st=0

Note that even at this size the white stripe really only shows on the dorsum of the snout, but look at how much slimmer the Cuban gar is at this stage from the gator gar (even the snout). this diagnoses gar #2 as a Cuban effectively:


For more reference (Submitted by Richard):

Quiz 5

thanks for the additional pics Peje!

we'll move right into the next quiz...just one fish this time, you may be able ascertain from the environment in the image something about the fish. good luck, and be sure to post why you think it is what it is!--
--solomon



Submitted by Richard:







Answer

ok so as people suspected and others at least answered 50% correctly, this one was a tough one again...

Answer: (most likely) longnose x shortnose hybrid, aka "medius gar".

it should be noted that we cannot say with absolute certainty that this is a hybrid, but Richard and I were pretty convinced it was a likely hybrid when we caught this ~5 years ago. unfortunately we did not take a fin clipping, otherwise i could have the DNA run on the fish and determine the species of the parents.

we do know that these fishes can hybridize, as we submitted another sample of medius gar DNA for testing and it's come back positive (other information on this is still in the works).

if you look at the features of the fish, you'll note the elongate snout that is too long for a typical shortnose, and too short for a typical longnose. the caudal peduncle is similar to a longnose with a more elongate structure, but the pelvic fins are very long like a shortnose.

body pattern is sort of a cross between the two fishes, and given the habitat (muddy waters in a river) there is not a strong pattern found in either species (we found both component species as well).

there has been a fish or two that's come through my possession as well that we weren't quite sure about, but again, this was before we had access to genetic testing.

congrats to everyone who ventured a guess on this tough one, and i think at least a couple of you got it right or were solidly on the right track!

next one will be a bit "easier" --
--solomon

Quiz 6

NEW QUIZ!

may have posted this one before, but figured it was worth the revisit...if you've seen it before and know the answers, please give others a chance to guess!

please answer from top to bottom, ID the 3 main gars in view; good luck!--
--solomon




ok since the last quiz was a bit of a re-run i'll post the answers quickly and move on to the next one.

will post explanations later, but several of you got them right...the answers are:
1- Cuban gar
2- Croc II
3- alligator gar

Quiz 7



ok here are the answers...will post the explanation later, but wanted to get into the next quiz as well.

1 - Cuban
2 - shortnose (MIGHT have been a medium nose, but we'll never know)
3 - longnose
4 - crocodile gar type I
5 - alligator gar

good guesses to those who participated!--
--solomon

Quiz 8



Ok here are the answers:

1 - spotted gar

2 - spotted gar

tricky, i know, but i was also interested in finding out what you guys would note about these two (relatively speaking) very different fish (i was also trying to avoid using fish and fishes in the clues, so as not to give away that they are the same species ).

i believe Madding had the correct answer, congrats to Michael on that; however, i would also like to point out that Conner pointed out some interesting features to note (you can check out his answer for more details).

we are still very much working on these fish, as their progeny are the individuals i deal with in the lab every day. i won't get into further differences, but use this quiz as an example of the high degree of variability within the species. these two gars are from two very different localities.

as a BONUS - this will get into what you guys may know about morphology, one of these fish comes from are more fluvial (flowing water) environment, the other from a lacustrine (lake) environment...any guesses as to which is which (also mention why you think so).

for the record, the snout on fish from photo 1 generally have shorter snouts than what we see in fish from photo 2 (this particular line-up just happened to have gars with similar-length snouts; the difference is usually a bit more drastic).

again, this was a tricky one...but congrats to everyone who got it down to Florida and spotted gar...this quiz was a good example that pattern doesn't always work, but sometimes general morphology can be quite different too--
--solomon

Quiz 9

Tendou Souji;4343683; said:

Thanks bro. Croc I: shortnose x gator; Croc II: florida x gator; Croc III: longose x gator? So far, hasn't there been a known occurence where a spotted mated alligator gar?

Click to expand...

before we ran the DNA on the Croc II the best i could do based on morphology was determine that it had to be a gator crossed with another Lepisosteus gar...ruled out shortnose and longnose (former based on the Croc I's that were all over the place for easy comparison, and the latter because it would likely look like the Croc I with a longer snout...and later we got photos from Shedd Aquarium). so that left FL and SpG as the other half of the hybrid, and at the time there was no way to tell much farther than that.

i just realized while going through primitivefishes.com the other day that i have not updated that hybrid info on Croc II to indicate that it is indeed a cross between a spotted gar and a gator gar (DNA testing showed this, ruled out FLG). so we officially know the Croc II is a gator x spotted (need to look further into that data for which was likely the mother and which was the father).

which leads us back to the answer...the fish is indeed the crocodile gar "type II". nice job everyone...i suppose only having photos of one specimen also makes for an easy ID as there is zero variability as long as you are looking at the correct photos from the correct age of the fish (as pattern changed drastically several times over the years).

really no major diagnostics needed if you have other photos to compare to, but i'll comment on some that may help later. next quiz hopefully up by later today--
--solomon

Quiz 10



if you guys are looking at snouts for morphological differences (morphology is probably the main way to go as pattern would be almost identical in a "typical" xanthic gar), check out the species page on Lepisosteidae.net as there are more "head shots" which you can compare...should help with making the decision between some of the species that have been mentioned thus far--
--solomon

Answer

ok was gone for a few days so i forgot to get back to this and post the answers...

as many of you stated, these are indeed xanthic gars (excess yellow pigment). these two fish once belonged to a good friend of mine and Richard's, who is also the owner of AP. they are both Florida gars, and of course well-fed. other than their condition being a little on the thick side, if you compare their snouts to Cuban gars, you will notice they are much longer and narrower than Cubans.

it would be tough to rule out spotted gar in this case, but given what we know about most xanthic gars that enter the hobby, you can hedge your bets and go by the numbers...Florida is the more logical answer here.

thanks to everyone who participated...next one will be up soon!--
--solomon