making my indoor pond an outdoor heated pond

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necrocanis

necrocanis

Catfish God
MFK Member
Oct 10, 2005
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montana
Hey guys,
i am kind of in a bind here. I am having to move thanks to my landlord selling this place. so my problem is I have my 350 gal cattle trough pond that is currently indoors with no cover and no heater. It sustains at around 75 f. Helps that it is positioned under a heater vent. I am moving to a house where the landlord requires that i keep my pond outside. I will be moving in about two weeks. I am looking to converting my pond to an outdoor heated pond. This seems like a daunting task to me to say the least. the pond is 6' in dia. it is 24" deep. I have 3 large hybrid catfish in there now. They are very active at their current temp of 75 f. I will be doing away with their current substrate of large stones as they injure themselves on them from time to time. So what i am wondering from other memebers that I have seen on here is, what size heater would I need to use to keep my water temps up with the winters getting to around -30s f. on the coldest nights, but usually around 0 to -15f. on cold nights. These are winter time temps. I plan on putting 4" of fiberglass insulation around the top sides and bottom of it and sealing it with a pond liner (or something else if anyone has a better solution). The top will be made from plywood with a 2x4 frame on the top and bottom covered again with pond liner and sealed with silicone. the top will have two halfs that clamp down when not open and will be hinged on a center brace. There are so many questions. The filters are 2 fluval fx5s. I need to know many things that i don't like electrical components being in the weather. Should I just make a waterproof box to house the filters and electrical components? What sized heater will I need to heat 350 gals to 75 f. with the insulation 4" thick all the way round? Does this even seem fessible? I am struggling in my mind with this because I don't want to lose my fish they mean the world to me and eventually I want to see them to a rip old age and their full potential in size. HELP HELP HELP!!!!! Also I have seen other users with insulated outdoor aquariums? What heating requirements do you have?
 
I think I may have the same trough buried in my yard as a pond; if it is plastic. I think burying it would make it simpler. The cover could extend out a foot or so to help protect the soil near the pond. You would not need insulation on the sides and bottom. If you have natural gas or LPG ,I think a home hot water would be not too expensive fo heat ( I really want to mention the filet knife option but I already offended someone else). The heater would have to be in some enclosure to protect the pilot light. Set the water heater to the minimum temperature ( like 110F) and then have a circulation pump actuated by a regular aquarium thermostat, or equal . A venturi of some kind could diffuse the 110F water if you like. It would require a check valve to prevent the water heater from siphoning back into the pond through the pump when it is off. OR, dig the water heater down so its top is below the pond top . OR, put in a couple electric check valves that open when the pump is activated and close when the pump is off.
Have you considered moving south. I have a friend born in MT who has lived in TX 15yr with no ill effects.
 
I am kind of restricted on moving. I am in the military and cannot move out of montana for the next two years when i get out. As for digging the pond in that's a no go. My land lord stipulates that the pond will be put onto a gravel bed that is outside of the house. I have no choice but to insulate, and the hot water heater is unrealistic also as he would sh#t a brick to see that. I will be moving to north carolina in two years but for now I am stuck in montana and must do what must be done and the fillet knife I won't go there I intend to keep these fish for life. thanks for your help though.
 
This isn't going to be cheap. I guess you are going to need 2000 watts for the coldest day; most of the time a few hundred watts will likely be enough. I am unfamilar with your fish , but most will tolerate 55F or lower for a limited time.
A domestic electric hot water heater hooked up as suggseted ( won't need check valves or hole as heater will be at or below pond top. I have seen "under counter" with only 10 gal tanks, typically 2000 watts. 12 gage wire will handle it (and filters) if under 25ft; there will be a chart on some wire bundles to find the length that will require 10 gage at 20 amp.
 
u need to go to www. stockyardsupply.com they got 1500 watt clamp on submersabile heaters 95.99$ u may need to make a egg crate guard to keep the cats from burning themselves.:WHOA: -30 f WTF THATS CRAZY U MIGHT NEED 2?:cry: LOL
 
tnx you guys, this helps alot. I am slowly gathering the materials to do all of this. Until their upgraded home is completed they will be living in temporary storage tubs. The 44 gal ones I believe. They were in them before when I was first setting up their pond. they are much larger now but should still be fine in them for a few weeks. they were really calm and hardly moved at all when they were in them before. I barely feed them when they are in there though. Only just a few worms every other day to keep their morale up lol. and 75% water changes daily. I saw one of the under the counter water heaters that you are talking about today at home depot. Gonna do a little online shopping I'll let you guys know what I get. Thanks alot for all your help. Does anyone know how much the insulation might reduce the heating needs? With insulation the plastic walls and the pond liner I am using the wall thickness will be 4 inches, that is with 3 1/2 inches being fiberglass insulation, and I am gonna seal all the cracks with great stuff crack and hole filler. Does this sound good? Also I was thinking, would it work to make a fiberglass shell on the outside of the insulation, as in apply the hardner to the outside of the insulation put the fiberglass mesh cloth on and coat it again? I am just curious if that will work better than my pond liner idea? Thanks again guys.
 
oh yeah, and the fish are all hybrids. I don't think they will survive in temps too much below 70 f. The coldest I have had them so far was 65 f. They were fine but really skittish. They are all tiger shovelnose catfish hybrids, and one plecostomus (21") They are the biggest 30" tiger shovelnose x redtail catfish hybrid, 23" tiger shovelnose x marble catfihs hybrid, and 16" tiger shovelnose x pimelodis blochii hybrid. I am gonna take the opportunity to weigh them when I have them netted in the 40" koi sock net I bought for this move.
 
Here's calculator that may help a little...fudge the size till you get tha gallaons right. http://boonedocks.net/fishtank/ftweb.php

There was someone one here using the heating element from a water heater for a pond. This worked for me years ago (I was cheap or didn't have the money to spend I forget) but you need to know what your doing.

Once you get your thermal mass stabilized it should be easier to hold.

But insulation is the key...Check with the agricultural extention agent for your area, he can tell you the temps to expect and may have some ideas too. These guys sometimes have to deal with aquaculture and fish farming too.

Also check with a local cement contractor, they'll be able to fill you in on local frost line depths too.

If you can build an enclosure around the tank to cover any insulation and to help with the wid chill factor.

Could you use spray on foam insulation (like greatstuff). See if someone in your area is a rep for it, it's better in this case.

Good luck and keep us posted

Dr Joe

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I was thinking of a commercial operation and was overengineering.
Dr Joe is right ; all the insulation you have room for.
Why not regular aquarium heater/thermostats ? Your filters will give enough stiring. I found my wire capacity table ; 12 gage is good for 20 amp to 135ft. So, in round numbers 2000 watts , like 10 -200watt or 7-300 watt heaters. You could even set them at staggered temperatures ; 75F, 72F, 70F, etc. You may need to buy a 100 ft coil of 12 gage and put on your own plug/recepacles. Make sure you have 20A circuit available , with almost nothing else on it.
I think Ebo-Jaegers are the best .
 
tnx, I am going to try and get a few large titanium heaters like 3 800 watt heaters. Seeing as how this is outside is there any special attention that i should pay to recepticals and the filters since moisture might get in them?
 
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