Firemouth - Egg surviving rate

[Eliseus]

Hello everyone,

Im in desperate need of advice in breeding Meeki s.
Hope You can help.

Its a 50 gal aquarium, with a pair of Firemouths (significantly larger male), paired a month ago.
Sharing tank with a pair of yellow mollies, an albino Ancitrus, and corydoras 2x (panda and sterbas cory)
Female Firemouth has laid eggs (50 of them) on 04.08.15, ventilated them for 3 days. a day later I found out that surviving eggs has been moved (around 30), and dead (white eggs) ones left on the laying site. Well I presume that surviving eggs has been moved, I didnt see them move it. I just noticed eggs gone.
Unfortunately none of the fry has been spotted free swimming after that time.
Noticed male has been a bit aggressive and wanted female to spawn again.
Today 13.08.15. I noticed 60 more eggs has been laid in the new pot (location)
Female is currently ventilating them, without any help of the male. He just swims around, charging at her sometimes.
Is there anything I can do now to better a surviving rate of this new eggs?

Thanks

 

[Eliseus]

Here are some photos of the Aqaurium and the Meeki pair:

 

[duanes]

After the eggs hatch, the fry are not free swimming for a number of days. They are wrigglers that sit in one place, in a pile, and shimmy (sometimes they hop, but do not really swim), and that the parents hide in a pit, or under a rock while their yolk sacks are being used up. They are sometimes moved a few times to different pits by the parents, before the free swim stage.

after 3 or 4 days as wrigglers, you will notice free swimmers, that's when you begin to feed the fry.

That said, many 1st spawns are not successful, it usually takes another attempt or more for the parents to become competent.
If the males protective hormones make him too aggressive, focusing on the female instead of outward, it is often best to remove him (and all other fish) to another tank, and let the female take over the raising of the fry alone.

 

[Eliseus]

Thanks a lot Duanes!
Does this mean I can still count on the first fry to be alive?
There is a hollow cave behind the Budha statuse I shoudl check for wrigglers.
Does the fact that female laid new batch of eggs mean the last one is a complete failure?
Is there a possibility Ancitrus (4 cm long) could eat the fry?

 

[duanes]

Usually if they lay another batch of eggs, it is because the 1st didn't make it.
This very common for cichlids, so not something to worry about.
But removing the male and other fish can go a long way to help insure the next spawns survival. I know this is easiler said than done, because too much rummaging around in the tank with a net, can also cause them to eat fry.
I have a new spawn of Cryptoheros panamense at the moment, and have been trying to remove 4 swordtails (without success) for about a week. But these parents are vigorously defending the fry and have,so far, kept the swordtails pinned to the surface.

When in the wriggler stage, they are very vulnerable to nocturnal feeders like Ancistrus, and even corys will eat newly hatched, and free swimming fry.
If the female, or pair feel threatened, rather than having other fish get to their new investment, they will eat the fry themselves first.
I sometimes siphon out the fry, and raise them in a breeder box if the tank is too busy to get other fish out.
below are Honduran Red Points in a breeder box.

They are easy to feed in the confined space of a box, I simply use a turkey baster to shoot newly hatched artemia, or daphnia as first foods when the fry become free swimming.
I also use the baster to remove waste, although the box has a sponge filter attached that brings in water from the main tank.

 

[Eliseus]

Thanks again for the detailed information Duanes.
Unfortunately this is bad news for me, as I realize that I will have much trouble breeding Firemouths.
Firstly I dont have a second aquarium suitable for all other fish to move to.
Only thing I can think of is:
- wait for the new batch of eggs to hatch
- Buy a livebearer hang on plastic box
- with much luck find wrigglers at the right time and move them to the box
- try to raise them myself, feeding them crushed dry foods
- try to find live foods to feed the newly hatched fry(will not be easy)

I now realize that could even save the last batch, as I remember the moment female stopped defending the budha statue (where the fry was, Im sure now). Probably some of the "cleaners crew" eat the fry when the lights was off.

Do you recommend to leave some kind of dim light all night, so the parents can defend the fry better?
I do have a standard aquarium lighting all day long.

I seriously believe female will not live through if this batch fails, as the male will bully her to death for the next spawn. She will not be able to hatch any more eggs in this short time.
You wouldnt believe how hard is it to find another meeki female in my town.

 

[duanes]

Breeder boxes work well, if no other tank is available.
I have put dry food or thawed peas in a blender/processor, with some tank water, and shot clouds into a group of fry.

A distraction that sometimes works, is putting a mirror in the tank for the male to display to, so much so, that he may forget about the female.

In fry tanks, I also let algae grow on the back and 2 sides, as much as possible to let fry graze on.

 

[Eliseus]

Thanks again Duanes for the excelent advices!

Last batch of eggs turned white, 90 % of them. What was left, gone missing again.
So 100% failure on the second try - most certainly.

The problem (in my opinion) was that female laid egg unreachable by the male. So he was unable to ferthalise them properly. Well, thats my opinion.

I will put on a mirror, so male can lay off the aggresion towards the female.

 

[Eliseus]

Hello everyone,

Again after 8 days on 21.08. female laid yet another batch of eggs (around 50) as You can see on pictures in the post.
Is there any advice on how to try to preserve the unhatched fry this time (analyzing last 2 tries).

Is there any possibility fry would survive if I would to remove the whole batch together with the laying site to a breeder box - basically separating the eggs from the rest of aquarium.
and try to raise them by myself?

simply when the eggs disappear (3-4 days after the laying) I never see any activity of wrigglers or free swimmers, as something happens to them every time.

please give me some advice.
Best regards

 

[duanes]

This is what I did, the last time a pair of cichlids spawned in a community tank.
They spawned on a rock and guarded the eggs for about 3 days. I put an upturned PVC cap near the spawning site.

and lucked out and when the eggs hatched the female placed the wrigglers in the PVC cap.

After the fry were in the cap, I took it out, and placed in a 20 gal tank, and placed an air stone near the fry, help keep water moving and to keep most of them from fungusing.


at the same time poured brine shrimp eggs in a hatchery so when the fry became free swimming, they would have appropriate sized food.

The fry were fed at the brine shrimp least 3 times per day, until they accepted pureed flake and pellet.