Mouth Rot... aka Bacterial Mouth Fungus. Outside the Box

[TheOriginalDoctor]

Hello folks,

Just popping in to see if by chance, you guys have a treatment, that is outside the box, for this annoying Condition?
The rot is on a Tropheus. Mpulungu, Male: 3.5 - 4 inches.. and this is only the 3rd time I have had to deal with this in 40 years keeping, and breeding fish. Cause is without question from fighting, and until I can find more of them they will keep at it. This is a colony pulled in from the wild, and are exercising the bid for Alpha.

The problem I have, is I ordered 12, it was a bad trip, and only 8 survived, with one of them questionable. After only a few days it was obvious the weaker female had to come out. leaving on 7 in a 40 gal tank. That is about half the number you need for that size tank to keep the beatings down.. So the problem can only be corrected when I find more of the same fish.

Of course this is going to kill this guy, should I not get the breaks on the decay, within the next 4-5 hours is my guess. While some of the Mouth Fungus moves slowly enough to give you time, this strain is not that nice. I noticed that you had a Vet here and thought I might bounce a rather oddball idea I have off of them.. or anyone else who has a thought to interject.

The idea is Tea Tree Oil.. applied directly to the mouth.. while it will not cure the parts already infected. My theory is that it possibly might keep it from moving across the mouth as a whole. AT the time of this post, the fish is already 24hr.s in. Obviously it isn't with the others, and even tho my water reads out fine for Tanganyikans, I am doing a second water change on the 40 gal tank just following this posting. The 2 gal tank the fish in question is staying in, I plan to do as near to 100% as I can.. I will be draining and filling at the same time via airline tubing.
The parameters in the sick tank are not even close to the 40 gal. They are healthy enough sure. but 228 ppm EC 566.. Ammonia is flat line, barely yellow. API tested.. mother approved.. Leaving the other problem, I have no control over. The tank is rocking 86-88 degrees. My fish room is only running a large room AC unit which, normally, keeps the room at 77 Degrees, but the weather has been high 90's - 105, making everything running hot. None, other than this poor gnomer, are suffering.

Have a nice whatever it is when anyone might read this..Feel free to proffer up any suggestions you have tried in the past, and enjoyed success. As my time table here is at best 24-42 more hours, that guess being more wishful than anything, I will delay the topical tea tree oil treatment for 13 hours.. Kanaplex didn't even dent this thing on my last outing.. nor did Ethromycin.. I have no Triple Sulfa (I am allergic), or Tetracyclin (spelling).
I actually do have the Micro Biotic Lift.. gm. neg/gm positive treatment, and that's about it as far as what will fall in line and have any lasting effect. I am not expecting him to survive, considering the way it went last time. He is strong.. and will still take food even with the mouth problem. I have nitrofurizolidine medicated food.. and then 2 other med foods., but for Hex., making them Prazy..and Metro.

Ok I have taken up way too much of your time already, thanks for the read. Thanks in advance should anyone have a super secret treatment they want to lay on me.

Good Day
B.

 

[Wailua Boy]

I wouldn't recommend tea tree oil since it doesn't have any antibiotic properties(that I'm aware of) aside from its ability to alter pH. I have heard of people using potassium permaganate in combination with antibiotics and possible betadine but haven't myself used either for columnaris. For the most stubborn columnaris infections I've administered a injection of Baytril, which you will need to get from your vet but see what Charney has to say.

 

[TheOriginalDoctor]

Thanks on the input.. pretty much you hit on the only reasoning I have for not using it. With it's sealing and protective coating of wounds, being the only thing that prompted this theory to begin with.
I do not have the leisure of a local Vet, who would consider giving me , or selling me, anything as far as I know. I attempted to seek a more serious antibiotic, my last time dealing with this, and on another occasion when I only required a fairly large syringe to drain air from my male Frontosa.. Both times, possibly for very good reason, he was disinclined to accept either my diagnosis, or my genuine need of the items in question... It can't hurt to ask once more, however I fear we (meaning my fish and myself) have passed that point of anything I do, being of any use for recovery. Sadly, unless something happens in the next 4 hours to halt the decay, even if I stumble on the right medication afterward, He is only going to live long enough to stave to death.
If I trusted my own mind anymore, I would have just moved forward with the tea tree oil as one possible hypothesis to rule on.. It many times past I have pulled cures for things from one of my sudden epiphanies, but my own illness of late has put me in a place where I just can not trust my reasoning powers any longer. Thus, I yield to those who are still in possession of their mental prowess.

Thanks for the input,.. at least I have a name for the antibiotic this time thru when I try calling him.. lol Wish an old man luck..

As The Doctor always says.. "Nothing ventured, Nothing gained."

 

[TheOriginalDoctor]

Well the local vet was, as expected, unable to assist unless I scheduled a visit and brought the fish in for testing, or viewing maybe.. I assumed testing as I had a fairly clear pic on my phone. I did, however, stop in to chat with my pharmasist, to flirt and get her thoughts on my old theory and my revised one. Long story made short, they were wise and gave thoughts, but she wouldn't commit to a yes/no answer.. Smart Lady. She did not have the Baytril on hand, but was at least willing to look into it for me.

My revised theory was to use a second local, along with the tea tree oil, of another homeopathic item I have on hand from the same source.. Anti-I.. There is good reason I was trying to avoid using it, that being mostly that it packs quite a punch on me., and the odds of it killing this poor guy were pretty high.. By the time I made my rounds thru town, and returned home, IT was go time where I had to put him down or try my idea. I went with a 100% water change waiting for him.. a heaping tsp of instant ocean salt per gal. and the local of Anti-I... dipped and then a second local of tea tree oil. The bacteria/fleshy mess dissolved and peeled off his face, like wiping dirt from a window. BUT.. he was in extreme distress and down on his side. Barely breathing. Eyes giving me that, "what on God's green did you just do to me" look. After about 12 minutes he rolled upright, and unceremoniously informed me that I am dead to him..

The mouth rot, since I just refuse to call it anything else, appears to be stopped dead in it's track.. he is up and active, BUT not eating. That will be the kicker, less than 48 hours have passed since the corner of his mouth flared up with the columnaris.. nearly his entire upper "lip" and all of the right side corner of his mouth is already gone. Sadly, I still am not holding out much hope for any type of an acceptable recovery, but if he will start eating, I'll set him up a 5 or 10 gal tank of his own. He positively would never survive returning to the colony tank.

Thanks for the input today, it was helpful and before using the tea tree and anti-i as a treatment I contacted Dr. Schultz, to get his input. and his recomendation of how much to dilute each of them, if at all. Anti-I was full strength.. the tea tree oil was a 10 : 2 solution... with the 2 drops being the oil.

Thanks again.. Good Day.

 

[Charney]

you can try the tea tree oil. It does have some beneficial properties but i do not think it will work for your case. Pretty sure melafix is tea tree oil and has been proven not to have antibiotic proprieties (not to say it doesn't have healing properties). I would do MB dips and treat with an appropriate antibiotic.