P.magdalena pups - How to make them eat and grow?

[Proximus]

Hi,

I keep a pair of P. magdalenae/reticulata that have produced a total of 5 nice and healthy pups over the last year, but non of them ever started to eat and gain weight. They just slowly starved, even though i provided them with several options when i comes to food, and keept food available almost at all times.. Bloodworms, chopped earthworms, blackworms, adult artemia, daphnia, artemia naupiles, cyclops, mashed herring bits, mysis shrimp, mashed meat from market shrimp + eggs, carnivore pellet, discus bits, different types of flakes, homemade mix, and so on. I have both tried to feed different types of food seperatly, and i have tried to mash several things together.

I have tried to keep the pup in a separate tank, keep the pup with the mother in the aquarium it was born, remove the male, remove both parents.. I have spent so mutch time trying to succeed, but i have not ben able to do that.

Now just recently the female gave birth to 3 more pups (her biggest litter). I have seen enough death, so i need to ask for some advice. Anyone have had success with raising pups with type of stingray, please speak up.

I would realy like to get my hand on some source of live food, but i can`t find anyone in Norway that can provide me with this. And most foreign online stores won`t ship overseas. LIVE tubifex is what i think would do the trick, but i can`t seem to find any. Any tips where i can get this?

 

[davenmandy]

Have you tried keeping them in a floating pup tub? When moving to another tank do you make sure not to expose them to air? If you want to keep them in a separate tank is it the same water/bacteria as they were born in? If it is, i would suggest keeping lights off and possibly draping towels over the back and both sides, and even the front if it is a high traffic area. It sounds like a stress thing to me, I don't feel like your rays would breed if your water wasn't good. Make sure you remove food after feedings and try multiple times a day.

 

[Thekid]

In the wild pups eat snails for their main diet. i found that in an lfs that has a snail problem they will be happy to give away the snails.

I agree with everything said above.

Can you try soaking the food in garlic? I've had shark pups that wouldn't eat anything until I introduced garlic marinated mysis.

You're probably already know about how small their mouths are but try to make sure they can easily eat.

 

[festaedan]

Have you tried keeping them in a floating pup tub? When moving to another tank do you make sure not to expose them to air? If you want to keep them in a separate tank is it the same water/bacteria as they were born in? If it is, i would suggest keeping lights off and possibly draping towels over the back and both sides, and even the front if it is a high traffic area. It sounds like a stress thing to me, I don't feel like your rays would breed if your water wasn't good. Make sure you remove food after feedings and try multiple times a day.

Completely agree, the stress from taking them out of water and putting them in a new tank is more than enough stress to make these sensitive rays to starve. Blackworms have always worked for me. Keep them in a floating tub and try some blackworms again. Should work

 

[Jakob]

I find it strange that they didn't accept blackworms or earthworms. When all else fails snails and small crayfish like procambarus fallax (procambarus sp. marble) have always worked for me.

Have you considered that the problem might lie elsewhere, water paraments for example.

 

[Proximus]

Many good advices here, thank you.
I have really considered and taken all this into account when i have worked with these pups (that does not necessarily mean i got it all right..). On those occasions where i have moved pups into another aquarium, the system will have the same water, same bottom material, same filtration (keep several units in main tank, and put one of those in the pup tank). the pups never get exposed to air while i move them. I continuously keep an eye on the pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. I have had focus on avoiding stressfactors all the way. I vaccum waste and change water when needed (in a carefull manner), i keep all light off at all times, the pup-aquarium is located in the corner of a room in my basement, away from all other aquariums, where nobody except me moves around. I have closely studied pups when feeding (yes i have tried adding garlic), and i have seen some of the individuals chew food, but never big amounts, only single food items. I have also tried to raise two pups together with hordes of small snails without success.

The one thing that are mentioned - that i have not tried - is to keep them in a "floating pup tub".
Also i have not tried feeding with live crayfish, because i have not ben able to get hold of any that is small enough when i get them. I would have to breed it myself, and i am now in the porsess of this. I got a cuple of crayfish that looks like the one that you refer to Jakob, and they already got a few small offsprings crawling around (must have carried eggs when i got them). But i need MANY more if it is going to help in the long run.

If it is even possible, i will put more emphasis on avoiding stressfactors this time. I will try to pay even more attention to detail.

I will sit down with a coffee and try to make a plan. Thanks again.

 

[davenmandy]

Keep us posted, we are here to help. If it mean anything to you it sounds like you know enough to do what it takes so either you had bad luck or you will figure out the "trick" soon, whatever that may be for your circumstance.

 

[Proximus]

Here are two pictures of the stingrays and the aquarium, so one can get an idea of what im working with at the moment. (3 internal filter units, and one external - never registred problems with water parameters at any time with this setup. Change water so i keep nitrates well under 25 mg/l at all times, it is usually under 12 mg/l).



Female in front, male in the back, and one of the 3 pups to the left.



I have not moved out the pups or parents yet... not built a floating tub.. still considering what to do and how to do it.
(Lights on the aquarium are off, it`s the camera flash that genereate the light in the pictures).

 

[davenmandy]

Parents don't bug the little ones at all? Especially during feeding?

 

[Proximus]

They do. The pups get stressed out when the parents roam close to them.
I am going for you advise about using a pup-tub. It is in the making now. I have taken a transparent plastic box and i have drilles small holes all over it for proper waterflow, and lots of bigger holes on the lid for airation. Im also considering to use a small airpump with a suitable airation stone with the setup if needed. I just need one more component to be able to secure the tub to the glass of the aquarium. Stores are closed for the day, but the whole thing will be up and running tomorrow. I will post a photo when it is rigged.