Why not more stalsbergi?

[aztsm]

I know there's people out there like me that would die to get there hands on some, but what about the rest of you? Don't care for them? There lack of availability? Novice are unaware of this species?

I would think the demand and supply would be greater these days for them. I know there are a few members that have them, but they are not commonly seen anywhere in my experience. aquabid, eBay, instagram, facebook, google images. Certainly not locally. Its mostly the same stuff for awhile.

I personally had large pair of WC from Rapps that breed for me. The experience wasn't that great. The male was brutal. Slaughtered the female, texas, and others. He became a loner. On top of that he was very skittish and not a good wet pet. Perhaps cause of his age and the fact he was wild caught. I would certainly like to try again with this species, but not at the cost that it is to have them shipped from Rapps. I think I paid almost $300?? for a pair shipped

Beautiful fish. Comments?

 

[Stanzzzz7]

They are a lot more aggressive than rivulatus and don't show such bright colouration.
Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[ehh]

I think the last part of your comment answers your own question lol

 

[jonclark96]

As others have said, I think you may have answered your own question. I've not kept them, but have also heard they are much more aggressive than the rivulatus cousins. I'd suspect many who have tried to grow out a group now have a lonely single male who beat the hell out of his tank mates.

 

[donk232]

I know there's people out there like me that would die to get there hands on some, but what about the rest of you? Don't care for them? There lack of availability? Novice are unaware of this species?

I would think the demand and supply would be greater these days for them. I know there are a few members that have them, but they are not commonly seen anywhere in my experience. aquabid, eBay, instagram, facebook, google images. Certainly not locally. Its mostly the same stuff for awhile.

I personally had large pair of WC from Rapps that breed for me. The experience wasn't that great. The male was brutal. Slaughtered the female, texas, and others. He became a loner. On top of that he was very skittish and not a good wet pet. Perhaps cause of his age and the fact he was wild caught. I would certainly like to try again with this species, but not at the cost that it is to have them shipped from Rapps. I think I paid almost $300?? for a pair shipped

Beautiful fish. Comments?

I was also looking for some but I think you changed my mind some gold or silver saum seems more manageable.

 

[duanes]

This is kind of like the two species of Cuban cichlids.
In Milwaukee I could find N tetracanthus for @ $5 each.
But the last time I saw the other Cuban, Nandopsis ramsdeni for sale, it was a single male for $300.
I have always wanted ramsdeni, but would I drop that kind of money on a single non breedable individual? No way, unless I had a female already.
And ramsdeni are also known to be very aggressive with each other. So would I spend $150 plus shipping on half dozen juvies? Yes of course, but only if I had a very large tank available, so they wouldn't all dead except for 1.
Then there's also the the most important variable. What do people want, and what are they actually aware of.
My guess is if you polled 100 generic fish keepers, 100 would know what an oscar was. 50 might know dovii, and/or managuense, 3 might know of stalsbergi, and 1 Nandopsis ramsdeni or Isthmoheros tuyrensis(another on my wish list (and those, may have only seen photos)

 

[neutrino]

Speaking for myself, I'm very aware of stalsbergi, just not interested in them. Personal preference and nothing else, but there are too many other Andinoacara/Aquidens/acara types ahead of them as fish I'd want to keep.

As far as being meaner than rivulatus, try keeping wild rivulatus, which I've done. Very much like what you're describing for stalsbergi, difficult to keep with other fish, even other aggressive fish, even other wild rivulatus. The green terror nickname originated with wild rivulatus and with good reason, both from what I've read about early imports and from my own experience with wild ones.

 

[Aquamojo]

This is kind of like the two species of Cuban cichlids.
In Milwaukee I could find N tetracanthus for @ $5 each.
But the last time I saw the other Cuban, Nandopsis ramsdeni for sale, it was a single male for $300.
I have always wanted ramsdeni, but would I drop that kind of money on a single non breedable individual? No way, unless I had a female already.
And ramsdeni are also known to be very aggressive with each other. So would I spend $150 plus shipping on half dozen juvies? Yes of course, but only if I had a very large tank available, so they wouldn't all dead except for 1.
Then there's also the the most important variable. What do people want, and what are they actually aware of.
My guess is if you polled 100 generic fish keepers, 100 would know what an oscar was. 50 might know dovii, and/or managuense, 3 might know of stalsbergi, and 1 Nandopsis ramsdeni or Isthmoheros tuyrensis(another on my wish list (and those, may have only seen photos)

Just a couple comments....maybe a little of topic. Great points, Duanes. I'm in the same boat. Lots of people have that dream list of fish they want and a limit on what they would pay. When it comes to Tetracanthus and Ramsdeni, I think with Cuba opening up it might happen sooner rather than later. I saw some old plates a long time ago that indicated different variants of Tetracanthus that were collected many years ago....just photos of bones and dried fish, so nothing that showed detail, but would be cool to see some variety on a fish that has been line bred to death in the USA.

Ramsdeni have been on my hit list ever since Rapps had that pair. A particularly NASTY fish that bred only once for him and never produced fry to sell. Likely the $300 fish was one of those fish. Jeff sold his off and they are few and far between in the hobby. I was with Rusty Wessel a couple weeks ago and brought up a collecting trip to Cuba. Once they start taking credit cards there, it's going to happen and I can't wait. I mentioned Ramsdeni specifically. Rusty said it's not an easy fish to get as it requires a lot of traveling up into the mountains...and not an easy trip. SO I want some evn more now. LOL

My "brown fish" dream fish is Hericthys steindachneri...and I doubt, as you point out, that there are very few that even know and many less that would even consider getting them if they were available. A bruiser from Mexco that is, well...brown, big and incredibly nasty. I'd do the same, clean out a big tank and raise just them. Rusty has had a couple adult pair for years that have never bred. When we collected Mexico, it was my target fish. I asked Rusty why so few were caught. He said, because they are big....and tasty. Locals have hit them hard supplying food for the table. One man's potential pet is another man's dinner.

I've kept both Rivulatus AND Stalsbergi. Neither did well in my hard as nails water. I didn't find either to be particularly nasty....but never really gave them a chance since I kept the male and female divided. Just some trivia...I had dinner with Alf Stalsberg at the ACA convention. Very nice man.

To your point, the bread and butter cichlids will always be there, with spike of interest for new variants or wild caught opportunities, but ultimately I think this is like any other fish in the hobby...they run hot and cold. If anyone IS interested in Stalsbergi, Gerorge Fear had them in stock a while back.

 

[duanes]

Good stuff Mo, I was hoping with Cuba opening up ramsdeni might turn up somewhere down the road.
But I also realize the logistics and hurdles to that, are immense, even if Cuba does open. Now that I live in Panama I'm finding out just how difficult, and expensive it is, to simply to get one fish to my little home here alive, and keeping it that way.
Why wild fish aren't more expensive than they are, amazes me. To send a 1 ounce letter back to the states (2 day) cost me $59, can you imagine what the shipping cost of a box of fish is. And that would be after all the "official" red tape is secured.
I also realize this is/may be off topic from the OPs original thought, but the question posed speaks to the availability of any more obscure species, or even those that have fallen by the wayside once initial popularity wanes.
When I first wanted haitiensus, they were fairly expensive, after mine spawned a few times, my local market was so glutted, I could't give them away.
I wonder if that became the case for you after you sent me a group of Herichthys minckleyi? Mine never spawned and are now gone, but I believe there is an MFK member from Michigan who had success with them, probably from the same lineage.
Although the very beautiful H carpintus I had are great, those miickleyi you sent were far more intriguing.
I must also admit that any "brown fish" such as H steindachneri peeks my interest much more than many slightly more colorful versions, the geographical, environmental, etc etc factors involved are often important drivers in my case.
I would imagine that more obscure species that are less apt to be crossed into mutts, and wild caught, or at least assured lineage cichlids will inevitably become more and more expensive as aquarium lines become randomly more and more diluted.

 

[Aquamojo]

Good stuff Mo, I was hoping with Cuba opening up ramsdeni might turn up somewhere down the road.
But I also realize the logistics and hurdles to that, are immense, even if Cuba does open. Now that I live in Panama I'm finding out just how difficult, and expensive it is, to simply to get one fish to my little home here alive, and keeping it that way.
Why wild fish aren't more expensive than they are, amazes me. To send a 1 ounce letter back to the states (2 day) cost me $59, can you imagine what the shipping cost of a box of fish is. And that would be after all the "official" red tape is secured.
I also realize this is/may be off topic from the OPs original thought, but the question posed speaks to the availability of any more obscure species, or even those that have fallen by the wayside once initial popularity wanes.
When I first wanted haitiensus, they were fairly expensive, after mine spawned a few times, my local market was so glutted, I could't give them away.
I wonder if that became the case for you after you sent me a group of Herichthys minckleyi? Mine never spawned and are now gone, but I believe there is an MFK member from Michigan who had success with them, probably from the same lineage.
Although the very beautiful H carpintus I had are great, those miickleyi you sent were far more intriguing.
I must also admit that any "brown fish" such as H steindachneri peeks my interest much more than many slightly more colorful versions, the geographical, environmental, etc etc factors involved are often important drivers in my case.
I would imagine that more obscure species that are less apt to be crossed into mutts, and wild caught, or at least assured lineage cichlids will inevitably become more and more expensive as aquarium lines become randomly more and more diluted.

Do you remember the Barred Midas craze? That's a dinosaur tale. Chris Persson from the cichild scene was the only one that had one and EVERYONE wanted one. We've all seen cyclical trends with fish in the hobby. I agree with you on the wild caught...although I reserve judgement on what is actually wild caught and what is being marketed and sold as wild caught. Unless I get it from Jeff, Rusty or pull it myself...it's suspect. As an owner of an advertising agency, I understand the value of "sizzle".

Those Minkleyi were nice. There's a fish I'd love to have again. And interesting to boot. I think what I had were the snail eaters. I would love to have on of the psicvorous variants.

Didn't know you were in Panama. Very cool place. We home based on Boca del Toro for a week while collecting a while back. Wild times.