Planning RBP Tank

[austrian_predator]

so i've been wanting to get an aquarium since i was a little boy (~7 y/o), but i saved some birds at the age of 9 from certain death, and kept those.
my parents wouldn't allow me the birds PLUS the aquarium, so i was pretty much f*cked...till now, that is
i'm definitely moving out in the next 9 months, and i'm getting an aquarium first thing when i'm done with moving my stuff over to my new place
now i don't know yet how much space i will have at my disposal and how much weight the floor will hold, but i'm gonna assume that a 600L tank (~150G) will be ok
i'm thinking of getting either a shoal of redbelly piranhas or a solitary rhom, but i'd prefer the rbps because they're badass in a shoal and i dunno if i can even buy rhoms in the local petshops...so how many rbps could i keep in a 600l tank? keep in mind that although i wanna start with small piranhas (1") at no time i wanna have more in my tank than i can keep as fully grown adults, because i know noone whom i could give them
originally i was assuming that 6 rps would be no prob at all for the 600l tank, but i went to the local zoo today to get an idea of aquarium setups...they have some rbps there, and they're HUGE
like, almost carp size huge, at first i thought they were piraya but the sign said nattereri
plus, i bought an aquarium book today and it recommends a tank length of OVER 3m (~120 inch) for piranhas...that's about twice the tank size i was thinking of
can i realistically fit about 4 of them in the 600l, and there's still room for 1-2 more?
just in case they breed...
or should i go with the rhom (if available)?
oh and i plan on trying to keep some mollys/neons/snails/shrimp (and maybe some small nocturnal catfish?) in there as well (emphasis on trying )
i'm gonna really densely plant about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the tank (hornwort and a few other amazonian plants...), throw some floating plants in and place 1-2 gnarled pieces of driftwood in there, plus add a peat filter for blackwater effect, so in theory the lesser animals should be ok once the piranhas grow large enough
it just shouldn't be worth the effort on side of the piranhas, as the small fish can swim right through some holes in the bogwood and the rbps have to swim around it, plus the lesser fish can just hide amongst the plants
if once in a while one gets eaten, who cares...mollys breed like crazy anway (piranhas shouldn't be able to wipe those out in a medium sized tank), and if the others get eaten i'll just try something different..

wow, that was one long-ass post...thanks in advance for your help

ps: any ideas on what plants i should include in the aquarium? i'm going for a rather realistic depiction of the amazon environment with blackwater, smaller amazon fish and stuff, so i'd like to include south american plants only...

 

[NotoriousSway]

I remember when I wanted RBP's cuz I thought they were badass, boy was I mistaken. They are the most skiddish fish I have ever owned they would rarely even eat in front of me and when they did it was nothin like you see on nature documentaries. Although that was when I was a noob, I would still like to have some when I can have them in the proper tank and large numbers like they like. From what I can tell they like lots of space with low lighting, hiding spots, and shoal in large numbers.

 

[austrian_predator]

i don't want piranhas because i'd like seeing them rip live animals to shreds (although i admit, it would be cool to watch once in a while ), but rather because they are very interesting fish, i just love the way they look and move...plus they are very hardy fish apparently, which is definitely a plus because i am an aquarium beginner (had a newt tank once for a few months but never fish)
i did quite a bit of internet research on piranhas, turns out they aren't as skittish in blackwater with lots of plants dimming out the light, which was exactly what i was going to do
also, they get used to people quickly if their tank stands at an exposed position (e.g. livion room)
of course, if the tank is in the cellar where you visit them once every 2 days, they're gonna stay skittish forever
i'm definitely getting piranha/s, the question is just, what kind?
but thanks for sharing your experience anyway

 

[Diogenes]

Well, I am certainly no expert. However, I have done a whole grip of research into all sorts of fish since I started keeping tanks. I currently only have one fish and that an S. marginatus. He's pretty rad. Here's what I know about RBPs.

Okay so most people agree that the bare minimum to keep one RBP is about a 40 breeder (36x18x12? i believe). That's because RBP's grow to 12+ inches if your lucky. Now all pygo's are shoaling fish, so go ahead and plan to have the minimum of 4 fish (the more the better.) Each RBP needs 20g of water by itself. So a 120 could comfortably hold 5-6 piranha. 6 would be a good sized shoal but it would be maxed out. They grow pretty fast and they are nasty eaters. Plan on over filtering the tank. You need something that can turn the entire volume of the tank over several (like 4-5+ times an hour). Cannister filters are the most popular option for RBP tanks. I use a HOB filter for my tank but it's only got the one serra so I don't have the same kind of waste that some folks do.

Piranhas are very shy. Don't expect a kill committee ready to decimate feeders. You have to starve them to get them to attack like that. In fact most won't even eat while your in the room. Mine hides under a mangrovem root until the lights go off. At night he slays anything in the tank. I've tried keeping oscars, Jd's, convicts, and the like in my tank. I put them in, he swims around them, I wake up in the morning, and if there is a fish left at all, it's usually in pieces. At the very least he eats the fins off them. Piranahs are more scavenger and parasite than predator. If you want a predator, get a guapote or some SW fish or something because P
s just don't exhibit the kind of ferocity you would expect. In fact, they're really kind of boring. The only reason I have one is because I have never been able to legally own one prior to moving to where I currently live. If I ever wanted to keep one, now is the time.

They are scared of light, even actinic light. Even with floating plants, mine only comes out at night.

Just some info. Have you heard of OPEFE? google it or click here. It's THE spot.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/

good luck and happy fish keeping.

PAX,
-C

 

[austrian_predator]

so i could actually easily keep 5-6 rbp's in a 150g tank?
wow, i didn't expect that because the redbellies at my zoo were really huge...maybe they were pirayas after all? i'll get 6 if that's true, after all one or two casualties are to be expected during the first year, right? cannibalism and stuff
and if all 6 survive, well no problem, the tank can hold them
as for the filter, i read that a filter fit for double the tank size would be ok, e.g. a 300g/hour for a 150g tank, but i'll go ahead and believe you that a 4-5x the rate is better
but wouldn't a 600g/hour filter be pretty costly? and also loud? not to mention that i might have a hard time finding such a huge filter in any local shop...
according to several piranha-specific forums, not all piranhas are skittish, and the ones i saw at the zoo yesterday were certainly not skittish
maybe a tad bit boring and not very active, yes, but not skittish
i'm prepared that piranhas might not be the most exciting fish at first but i'm sure it will be very rewarding in the long term

ps: thanks for the link, very helpful site

 

[austrian_predator]

sorry for the bump, but i've got another question: what kind of glove can i use to protect my hand from piranhas?
i'm guessing that thick gardening leather gloves won't do, right?
how about some shark-protection chainmal gloves? with a leather glove on the outside, so the piranhas don't break their teeth...or do those grow back anyway?
but where can i get such gloves? oh and they probably won't be cheap, right?
anyone got ideas/experience with piranha protection gloves?

 

[le patron]

i really wouldnt be too worried about the piranha biting you. they are very skittish and should flee from your hand unless they are very hungry

 

[austrian_predator]

well, this is probably true of pygos, but i've hear of serras, especially large rhombs, that were pretty aggressive and not shy at all
i probably wouldn't go for a chain-mail glove seriously, but i wondered if there might be a cheap protection measure
better safe than sorry, right?

 

[SkiPro]

i wouldnt worry about bites at all i stick my hands in my p's tank and they just hide. As far as the skiddish comment you are correct (sorta) it all depends on your tank layout my p's are generally out and about and always eat in front of me but i am one of the lucky ones.

 

[austrian_predator]

ok i get it that well fed rbps aren't anything to be too afraid of, but to be on the safe side i'll watch my hand very carefully if i ever have to stick it into the tank ;-)

obviously i'll have to get a filter that can do at least double the tank size, and at least one heater, but would you guys recommend a powerhead and an oxygen pump too, or are those not necessary with piranhas?
with the oxygen pump, take into consideration that there'll be lots of plants in the tank...

also, what kinds of medicine/water additions should always be kept in store for emergencies?
aquarium salt probably, anything else?

one last question: do they sell special piranha nets? 'cause i reckon they bite right through the plastic ones, right?