grains, e numbers, colouring, fillers or bonding agents of any kinda have no place being in a k9's food...
Big dogs: food, heath and exercise...
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grains, e numbers, colouring, fillers or bonding agents of any kinda have no place being in a k9's food...
The problem with feeding pets homemade diets is that one has to have a valid knowledge of canine and feline nutrition. Although commercially prepared pet food manufacturers do have their problems, please consider the fact that PREMIUM, commercially prepared pet foods are BALANCED and offer the pet the daily required nutrients that are needed for that pet to properly sustain life. Mixing of homemade diets don't offer consistency of nutrients. Excessive or inadequate nutrient levels often leads to disease. Also, one needs to be careful feeding high-protein diets to dogs. Dogs are not true carnivores. They're omnivores. Excessive protein in canine diets can lead to renal disease. By feeding high levels of protein to a dog, you're forcing the kidneys to work harder then they were designed to work. On the other hand, cats are true carnivores and can sustain a healthy life on high-protein diets. Cats, dogs and humans all have different metabolisms and physiological systems. What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for the other species. And, the raw diet is very risky, due to the potential of salmonella being present in uncooked meat.
Raw meat isn't high protein. And what exactly doesn't carry salmonella? I breed mice, they do. I have a snake, he does. My iguana as well, so does his food, which also needs to be carefully balanced but you don't see many ig owners feeding dried out pellets full of fillers and coloring. They feed fresh veggies and don't have nutritionist degrees either. I don't make sure my diet is complete and balanced. Is there anybody on here feeding their fish a 100% complete and balanced diet? No, because just like cats and dogs, we don't know what that is, nor do pet food companies. They take some poor quality meat, process the crap out of it, throw in fillers and vitamins and ready to go! Yum. You think pet food companies make a 100% quality balanced food, you haven't looked at a label lately. The vast majority of them are full of grains and veggies, it's not like it's a secret that dogs are carnivores and have no dietary use for carbs. Or that cats and ferrets are obligate carnivores and really can't handle that stuff. Most treats? Full of sugars, dyes, by products, things pet food companies know harms animals, but it's cheap and it sells and that's what really matters. I've dealt first hand with my animals harmed by kibble and you couldn't pay me to go back.
we have very similar views on this subject! and i too have a gorgeous female Ig
Ill expand a lil... In nature no animals diet is balanced over the corse of a week name me one? Over the corse of a season tho this is a different story and i dont believe it is right to feed a animal the same food day in day out no matter what the animal... where in nature does this happen...
commercial feed companies no matter who they are use mechanically recovered meat! i dont care what there label says they do! which means the meat is treated and coloured BEFORE they have it so irrespective of what they do to it it has been treated!!!
to put it another way what you guys are saying, is that its ok go to mcdonalds, pick a meal that x3 = the correct daily calorie intake for a human, what ever that be... then go eat that same meal 3 times a day for 50years and tell me how you feel!!!!!
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I had difficulty following your post, but the portions of it that I was able to comprehend, are full of inaccuracies. You might want to have a discussion with your veterinarian. If you don't believe your veterinarian, then I don't know what to say. There are many myths out there on the internet. By the way, I earn a living as a veterinary consultant. I'm speaking from a professional perspective. I know pet food. My intention was not to create debate. It was to to offer a different opinion based on fact.
^^ Please don't take this the wrong way, but I had difficulty following your post, but the portions of it that I was able to comprehend, are full of inaccuracies. You might want to have a discussion with your veterinarian. If you don't believe your veterinarian, then I don't know what to say. There are many myths out there on the internet. By the way, I earn a living as a veterinary consultant. I'm speaking from a professional perspective. I know pet food. My intention was not to create debate. It was to to offer a different opinion based on fact.
^^Perhaps documentation from Cornell University's School of Veterinary Medicine will convince you that dogs are not true carnivores, but rather omnivores and that cats are true carnivores. Dogs are capable of gathering their protein from plant matter. There is some protein in many plants. Also, Cats will die, if they do not receive appropriate (High) amounts of protein. Cats are incapable of collecting protein from plant matter. It's in black and white . . . The proof is in the pudding . . . Although salmon is a protein source, where do you get the notion of feeding a lion salmon? The protein source is irrelevant. What matters is that the animal is receiving their nutrient needs, be it salmon, beef, antelope or any other meat.
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/feedcats.html
http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/dog_nutrition_final.pdf
Just in case you don't want to read through the Cornell University Vet School documents . . . Here's an excerpt:
Obligate Carnivores' Nutritional Requirements
Cats are obligate carnivores and are very different from dogs-and people-in their nutritional needs. What does it mean to be an obligate carnivore? It means that cats are strict carnivores that rely on nutrients in animal tissue to meet their specific nutritional requirements. In their natural habitat, cats are hunters that consume prey high in protein with moderate amounts of fat and minimal amounts of carbohydrates. Cats also require more than a dozen nutrients, including vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, and amino acids. These nutrients are the building blocks of various structural body tissues; are essential for chemical reactions (metabolism, catabolism); transport substances into, around, and out of the body; supply energy for growth and maintenance; and provide palatability.
The important thing to remember about nutrients, particularly vitamins and minerals, is that your cat needs the correct amount-but no more. It is possible to have "too much of a good thing" when it comes to vitamins and minerals; the use of supplements not only is unnecessary but also can be potentially dangerous to your pet's health. A key point to remember is that cats are neither small dogs nor people. Because of cats' unique metabolism, what might be good for you might be detrimental to your cat. A high-quality cat food assures an adequate supply of vitamins and minerals in your cat's diet; supplements should never be added without a veterinarian's approval.
Here is another on canine species:
Q: Does my dog need to eat meat?
A: Because dogs are descended from omnivores, they are not strict meat eaters. They are remarkably adapt- able to a wide range of ingredients, texture, and form in terms of what they will eat. Though many dogs may prefer animal-based protein, they can thrive on a vege- tarian diet. Regardless of whether the protein comes from plant or animal sources, normal adult dogs should get at least 10% of their total calories from protein. Older dogs appear to require somewhat more protein to maintain their protein reserves, perhaps as much as 50% more.
PROTEINS AND AMINO ACIDS
Dogs cannot survive without protein in their diets. Dietary protein contains 10 specific amino acids that dogs cannot make on their own. Known as essen- tial amino acids, they provide the building blocks for many important bio- logically active compounds and proteins. In addition, they donate the carbon chains needed to make glucose for energy. High-quality pro- teins have a good balance of all of the essential amino acids. Studies show that dogs can tell when their food lacks a single
amino acid and will avoid such a meal. Dogs are known to selectively choose foods that are high in protein. Whether this is simply a matter of taste or a com- plex response to their biological needs for all 10 essential amino acids is not known. However, dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet as long as it contains sufficient protein
and is supplemented with vitamin D.
BY THE WAY, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO INTELLIGENT DEBATE. I DO TRY TO AVOID EMOTIONAL, UNSUPPORTED ARGUMENTS. I'M ALSO ONE WHO WILL READILY ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT REAL MEN DO.
Obligate Carnivores' Nutritional Requirements
Cats are obligate carnivores and are very different from dogs-and people-in their nutritional needs. What does it mean to be an obligate carnivore? It means that cats are strict carnivores that rely on nutrients in animal tissue to meet their specific nutritional requirements. In their natural habitat, cats are hunters that consume prey high in protein with moderate amounts of fat and minimal amounts of carbohydrates. Cats also require more than a dozen nutrients, including vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, and amino acids. These nutrients are the building blocks of various structural body tissues; are essential for chemical reactions (metabolism, catabolism); transport substances into, around, and out of the body; supply energy for growth and maintenance; and provide palatability.
The important thing to remember about nutrients, particularly vitamins and minerals, is that your cat needs the correct amount-but no more. It is possible to have "too much of a good thing" when it comes to vitamins and minerals; the use of supplements not only is unnecessary but also can be potentially dangerous to your pet's health. A key point to remember is that cats are neither small dogs nor people. Because of cats' unique metabolism, what might be good for you might be detrimental to your cat. A high-quality cat food assures an adequate supply of vitamins and minerals in your cat's diet; supplements should never be added without a veterinarian's approval.
Here is another on canine species:
Q: Does my dog need to eat meat?
A: Because dogs are descended from omnivores, they are not strict meat eaters. They are remarkably adapt- able to a wide range of ingredients, texture, and form in terms of what they will eat. Though many dogs may prefer animal-based protein, they can thrive on a vege- tarian diet. Regardless of whether the protein comes from plant or animal sources, normal adult dogs should get at least 10% of their total calories from protein. Older dogs appear to require somewhat more protein to maintain their protein reserves, perhaps as much as 50% more.
PROTEINS AND AMINO ACIDS
Dogs cannot survive without protein in their diets. Dietary protein contains 10 specific amino acids that dogs cannot make on their own. Known as essen- tial amino acids, they provide the building blocks for many important bio- logically active compounds and proteins. In addition, they donate the carbon chains needed to make glucose for energy. High-quality pro- teins have a good balance of all of the essential amino acids. Studies show that dogs can tell when their food lacks a single
amino acid and will avoid such a meal. Dogs are known to selectively choose foods that are high in protein. Whether this is simply a matter of taste or a com- plex response to their biological needs for all 10 essential amino acids is not known. However, dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet as long as it contains sufficient protein
and is supplemented with vitamin D.
BY THE WAY, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO INTELLIGENT DEBATE. I DO TRY TO AVOID EMOTIONAL, UNSUPPORTED ARGUMENTS. I'M ALSO ONE WHO WILL READILY ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT REAL MEN DO.
my point with the salmon is quite simple pound for pound salmon contains a much higher content of protein than antelope for example... In order to sustain a lion you would have to feed it such a high quantity of salmon that the amount of proteins would have ill effect on its digestive system.... Protein source is completely relevant!
Before go making sarcastic statements about me reading links READ the previous posts in the thread... If you did you mite realise that neither Liz nor I have at any point advocated feeding an overly high protein diet... Mine for one is 60% RMB NOT meat per say!!!
And as far as im concerned this is the diet this breed has been traditionally feed for hundreds of years. Im not dealing with your average domestic dog as fair as Molosser go caucasians are one of the oldest evolutionary stages still present... There temperament is much more wolf like, i know trust me im a 11 year vet of growing up under the watchful eye of a pure breed arctic. Caucasians are bigger and more powerful than any wild dog sp. breed to deal with wolves and bears and have done that job more than capably for centuries...
Most british vets would disagree with your opinion too i mite add. No vet should recommend this as an approach in the wider field but if approached people should be encouraged to do more reading or in the direction of a good book on the subject. The problem here lies in the fact there simply are too many people who think feeding steak 24/7 is the best policy...
The Facts are there in black and white from many sources not just written from the perspective of your field... Liz and I have both stated anyone thinking on this issue should do as much reading as possible on the subject before making up their own minds about it...
By the way, your idea of salmon being higher in protein, pound for pound when compared to chicken, makes no sense. If the caloric density of salmon is higher than chicken, then it would take less salmon to fulfill the lion's daily nutritional requirements. If your idea of salmon being higher in protein/calories than chicken is actually true, it would take less to meet the lion's needs. Also, lions are big cats with digestive systems that process water buffalo, antelope and other dense meats. i doubt that salmon would give a lion a tummy ache.
