15+ lb Potomac river snakehead

[Arowana1]

While it is easier to remove a non native fish from a lake. However it is physically impossible to remove a non native fish from river systms. Once again please explain to me why snakeheads has to go but other nonnative fishes are allowed to stay? However not all fisherman will cull snakehead in florida. California have excellent. bass fishery if i am not mistaken. You know snakeheads has been in the Americas for 20years and no negative effects has surfaced.

Snakeheads are an apex predator. They change the way a native ecosystem works. That is why they are such a concern. California has got a great bass fishery however most of the waterways that they live in are man made water ways (not natural lakes), such as all the canyon lakes. However the natural water ways such as Clear Lake and the Delta are being managed by fisheries biologist to lessen the impact of bass (Largemouth and Striped Bass) on native fishes such as Steelhead, Salmon species, Clear Lake Hitch and others. Have you read in any kind of study that states Snakeheads have got no effect on native ecosystems or is this just an observation from you. The only way to say that is to have an official study that proves that point conclusively.

Fish biologist in training chiming in - what's "native" even mean? For most people it means fish that white people brought here or cared about. Ecosystems, species - will change. Extinction, migration (whether natural or not) will happen. A couple years ago they told us (wrongly, and we knew it then) that snakeheads would soon take over. As it turns out they have found a niche like everyone else, and their spread has slowed. And for everyones info Amia calva is native to much more than the south - and other than in some basic visual sense is very different from a snakehead. Different family of fish entirely.

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A definition of native fish is a fish that a species originates and has enough time to evolve to a certain area/ecosystem (and not imported from elsewhere). Ecosystems are going too change, fisheries management makes ecosystems that are changing as a direct relation from effects from people slower and less accelerated. The main point is to protect and conserve biodiversity. This richness of species should be protected and conserved as it provides everyone with richness of fisheries (many kinds of unique fish species) and actually one thing about the aquarium hobby (and MFK Forums) extremely as there are many kind of aquarium fish to choose from and collect.

You are correct Bowfins range extends from Southern Canada to the Southern USA (East of the Rookies). I however stated that this fish is similar not related to Snakeheads (another would be North American Bass genus Micropterus and South American Peacock Bass genus Cichla).

I remember this. Didn't they "remove" the pike by poisoning the entire lake, killing EVERYTHING in it. Way to save those natives! The pike would never have been able to do as effective of a job.

They did as Fish and Game was extremely concerned that if allowed to stay fisherman would move Pike to many other high elevation lake that could sustain Pike. This being the same concern that is the main concern with Snakeheads, that if allowed to stay these apex predators would change the native ecosystem, and the highland trout lakes are on of only a few watershed ecosystems that has not been altered in California. To the best of my knowledge Fish and Game restored Lake Davis.

Fish and Game have used this approach before in California to poison a lake for a season to remove fish to conserve natives. Lake Kaweah was poisoned to stop White Bass from changing the up river ecosystem from a trout ecosystem to a bass ecosystem

Hats off to the op for eating the snakehead!

LOL That works. However if I'm not mistaken isn't that how Snakeheads became established in the USA? As a food fish from Asia imported because of demand to the USA.

 

[MN_Rebel]

While some people are concerned about the biodiversity, majority of the average people only concerned about their favorite sportfish. What you think why they poisoned Lake Davis? They are not protecting the biodiversity of Lake Davis and they ONLY restored TROUT fishery. That is huge difference between protecting fishery and protecting the biodiversity.

I recently read an article and several published papers of offical studies said that snakeheads are not threatened to the ecosystems, fit in completely different niche and have completely different diets from other predatory fishes. Many biologists admitted that they were wrong and the snakeheads do not take over the ecosystems. As I said before Potomac River is already full of non-natives before the snakeheads show up. Northern snakehead may be an apex predator but that doesn't mean they are immune to the predation or being top predator in the river system, especially with non-native largemouth bass and non-native blue/flathead catfish.

Your average Joe fisherman don't really cares about biodiversity. You should see what they did to the roughfish or other fish that they do not like. Bowfin got SAME treatment as the snakeheads in most areas, they get killed, discarded and left them to rotten. So much for saving the biodiversity.

While I admired your knowledge, you have to remember that what the public wants, the public gets it. (stocking non-native sportfish/foragefish)

 

[Egon]

While some people are concerned about the biodiversity, majority of the average people only concerned about their favorite sportfish. What you think why they poisoned Lake Davis? They are not protecting the biodiversity of Lake Davis and they ONLY restored TROUT fishery. That is huge difference between protecting fishery and protecting the biodiversity.

I recently read an article and several published papers of offical studies said that snakeheads are not threatened to the ecosystems, fit in completely different niche and have completely different diets from other predatory fishes. Many biologists admitted that they were wrong and the snakeheads do not take over the ecosystems. As I said before Potomac River is already full of non-natives before the snakeheads show up. Northern snakehead may be an apex predator but that doesn't mean they are immune to the predation or being top predator in the river system, especially with non-native largemouth bass and non-native blue/flathead catfish.

Your average Joe fisherman don't really cares about biodiversity. You should see what they did to the roughfish or other fish that they do not like. Bowfin got SAME treatment as the snakeheads in most areas, they get killed, discarded and left them to rotten. So much for saving the biodiversity.

While I admired your knowledge, you have to remember that what the public wants, the public gets it. (stocking non-native sportfish/foragefish)

+1 and I also think Bowfin are commonly confused with Snakehead and add to the increased sightings and ridiculous claims to Snakehead populations.
Just curious, what would it cost to ship one of those monsters to 85284?

 

[spotfin]

While I admired your knowledge, you have to remember that what the public wants, the public gets it. (stocking non-native sportfish/foragefish)

Sad, but true.

Eat more snakeheads!

 

[MN_Rebel]

+1 and I also think Bowfin are commonly confused with Snakehead and add to the increased sightings and ridiculous claims to Snakehead populations.

Not mentioned to that most fisherman do not like bowfin very much since they are considered as a roughfish or trashfish. Bowfins do not recieve any protection, nor other less desireable fishes do. So the bowfin already got a bad rap long time ago before the snakeheads arrived in the Americas.

 

[Arowana1]

While some people are concerned about the biodiversity, majority of the average people only concerned about their favorite sportfish. What you think why they poisoned Lake Davis? They are not protecting the biodiversity of Lake Davis and they ONLY restored TROUT fishery. That is huge difference between protecting fishery and protecting the biodiversity.

I recently read an article and several published papers of offical studies said that snakeheads are not threatened to the ecosystems, fit in completely different niche and have completely different diets from other predatory fishes. Many biologists admitted that they were wrong and the snakeheads do not take over the ecosystems. As I said before Potomac River is already full of non-natives before the snakeheads show up. Northern snakehead may be an apex predator but that doesn't mean they are immune to the predation or being top predator in the river system, especially with non-native largemouth bass and non-native blue/flathead catfish.

Your average Joe fisherman don't really cares about biodiversity. You should see what they did to the roughfish or other fish that they do not like. Bowfin got SAME treatment as the snakeheads in most areas, they get killed, discarded and left them to rotten. So much for saving the biodiversity.

While I admired your knowledge, you have to remember that what the public wants, the public gets it. (stocking non-native sportfish/foragefish)

Lake Davis is a man made lake however when poisoned many native parts of the ecosystem were not killed in the ecosystem up stream. After the poison in the lake was gone the native ecosystem was allowed to recover naturally by the ecosystem washing down stream from the head waters. Poisoning lakes is a last resort here in California.

My approach is a California one. Each department in each state is somewhat similar however they can have unique ways. The natives here have got seniority in natural water ways over the invasive sport fish which may not be the same else where.

If you have got a link I would not mind reading the papers about how Snakeheads are not impacting the ecosystem in the Potomac River. Just stating that is not convincing to me, that an apex predators has not got an effect on the ecosystem, as out west (being from a ranching family) for example, all the ranchers are up in arms about the recovery of Gray Wolves and Grizzly Bears (Washington. Idaho, Montana and Wyoming) and if you said they were going to have no effect on their livelihoods you would be an outcast in your own community.

Just seems to me that everyone wants them in the Eastern USA because they don't want to go through the time and trouble to buy a plane ticket and properly go fishing for them in Asia. Which to me just appears to be lazy and negligent at the expense of local waterways. We all have got our own priorities. However if Snakeheads turn out to be a similar situation to Golden Carp not popular and yet accepted as a part of the ecosystem that has some yet not overly negative effect on the ecosystem then great. However if native species start disappearing that requires management as they have got seniority (to me and others) in their native waterways and should be allowed a claim to existing long term in there original home.

Jeremy

 

[MN_Rebel]

Lake Davis is a man made lake however when poisoned many native parts of the ecosystem were not killed in the ecosystem up stream. After the poison in the lake was gone the native ecosystem was allowed to recover naturally by the ecosystem washing down stream from the head waters. Poisoning lakes is a last resort here in California.

My approach is a California one. Each department in each state is somewhat similar however they can have unique ways. The natives here have got seniority in natural water ways over the invasive sport fish which may not be the same else where.

That doesn't explained why they still stocked the non-native largemouth bass in Lake Davis.

If you have got a link I would not mind reading the papers about how Snakeheads are not impacting the ecosystem in the Potomac River. Just stating that is not convincing to me, that an apex predators has not got an effect on the ecosystem, as out west (being from a ranching family) for example, all the ranchers are up in arms about the recovery of Gray Wolves and Grizzly Bears (Washington. Idaho, Montana and Wyoming) and if you said they were going to have no effect on their livelihoods you would be an outcast in your own community.

Wolves/grizzlies v.s ranchers is another subject. This has nothing to do with the ecosystems.

Just seems to me that everyone wants them in the Eastern USA because they don't want to go through the time and trouble to buy a plane ticket and properly go fishing for them in Asia. Which to me just appears to be lazy and negligent at the expense of local waterways. We all have got our own priorities. However if Snakeheads turn out to be a similar situation to Golden Carp not popular and yet accepted as a part of the ecosystem that has some yet not overly negative effect on the ecosystem then great. However if native species start disappearing that requires management as they have got seniority (to me and others) in their native waterways and should be allowed a claim to existing long term in there original home.

Once again, it is hard to pleasing the public. If we focus on saving biodivserity...good-bye fishery and good-bye fishing businesses. Western natives got stocked in eastern parts of United States (pacific salmon, rainbows and cutthroats) and eastern natives got stocked in western United States (stripers, largemouth bass, muskellunges, pikes, walleyes, catfish, sunfish, hybrids, even bullheads and other undesireable fish) for FISHERIES. Do you see my point? Really, what is difference between snakeheads and NONnative gamefish? Don't be a hypocrite.

Northern Snakehead's here to stay for good and there's nothing we can do about it especially in a large river system with many tributaries. It appeared that "natives" are adapted to the presence of the snakeheads.

For your record, it's not a Golden Carp, it's a Common Carp.

 

[Arowana1]

Your being as much of a hypocrite as me. Why did we stock Largemouths in California yet we want to keep Snakeheads in the eastern USA? How am I being a hypocrite if I think natives have got seniority over introduced game fish. True they are here to stay however priority 1 is natives in natural water ways is not nonnative sport fish species.

Sorry about Golden Carp it is Common Carp. I have been out and about all day.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Your being as much of a hypocrite as me. Why did we stock Largemouths in California yet we want to keep Snakeheads in the eastern USA?

Sorry about Golden Carp it is Common Carp. I have been out and about all day.

I'm not being hypocrite, I'm just stating the facts. You have to realize that most people do not cares about ecosystems when it comes to the fisheries. They don't cares about undesireable fishes, they want see more of their favorite sportfish. That is why they stocked bass, which is a non-native fish to California for fishery and grow fatter by eating these trout they stocked. You have to be realized that sportfish is priority number one (regardless of native or not) when it comes to the fisheries.

We don't have any choice as the snakeheads are already in the river systems but we can learn how to live along them. Maybe you shouldn't saying "native North American fishery" when in the reality many of sportfish have introduced outside of their native range and the ecosystems has altered heavily from other factors.

 

[Arowana1]

I'm not being hypocrite, I'm just stating the facts. You have to realize that most people do not cares about ecosystems when it comes to the fisheries. They don't cares about undesireable fishes, they want see more of their favorite sportfish. That is why they stocked bass, which is a non-native fish to California for fishery and grow fatter by eating these trout they stocked.

We don't have any choice as the snakeheads are already in the river systems but we can learn how to live along them.

I hear you about learning to live with Snakeheads, which is normally a practice that starts through fisheries biologists (such as controling Zebra Muscles etc..).

You have got to understand though the lakes that Largemouths are stocked in that eat stocked trout and turn into monsters bass are not natural ecosystems. They are man made waterways. That is why Largemouths are #1 there. In natural water ways that is not the same natives are #1 and it is the managing fisheries biologist job to work toward and make certain that these natives do not go extinct while maintain a bass fishery. The California Delta is a great example of this, Strippers and Largemouths have eaten 4 species of Salmon to extinction and Stealhead in the California Delta are an endangered and protected species. Fisheries biologist are attempting to recover and sustain the species that remain. Which I think can be done.