removing sting ray barbs
- Thread starter tampa_bass
- Start date
Do not do this. Its a dumb idea. "Like getting our finger nails trimmed?"
Maybe if some people captured us in a net held us down and cut our nails off too short with wire cutters until we bleed would it be like your description lol. I guess if you consider that stress free your a bigger man than I...
You can interact just fine with rays without getting stung or going anywhere near the barb. Public aquaria are forced to do this because of the general public, and we all know the mentality and cognitive capacity of the general public... The majority of rays in public aquariums I have seen with "trimmed barbs" have constant open sores or fungal infections on their tails. Not to mention high mortality rates. Just leave it alone.
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If they are bleeding, it's being done wrong. If there are open wounds or infections, it's being done wrong.
If you aren't ok with fish being in nets, then you shouldn't be keeping fish at all. (That is kinda of how they get into the hobbiests home.) Netting a ray that is well adjusted is completely stress for the animal when done properly. In fact, many places have rays in operant conditioning programs where they will swim up and allow the staff to trim the barbs on their own. I'm speaking from first hand experience dealing with hundreds (if not thousands) of stingrays, done training seminars and written protocols for several facilities with interactive ray pools. Please feel free to share documented proof that when done properly it is bad or negative for a ray to have it's barb trimmed, I would love to know more.
Steve was not related to this topic at all. He was in the wrong spot when someone else made a mistake out in the wild during filming, and it cost him his life. It was a freak accident. End of story.
If you aren't ok with fish being in nets, then you shouldn't be keeping fish at all. (That is kinda of how they get into the hobbiests home.) Netting a ray that is well adjusted is completely stress for the animal when done properly. In fact, many places have rays in operant conditioning programs where they will swim up and allow the staff to trim the barbs on their own. I'm speaking from first hand experience dealing with hundreds (if not thousands) of stingrays, done training seminars and written protocols for several facilities with interactive ray pools. Please feel free to share documented proof that when done properly it is bad or negative for a ray to have it's barb trimmed, I would love to know more.
Steve was not related to this topic at all. He was in the wrong spot when someone else made a mistake out in the wild during filming, and it cost him his life. It was a freak accident. End of story.
thanks for your input zoodiver.. I think i'll trim the barbs at first until they are well adjusted to human interaction and go from there..
Zoodiver is about as knowledgeable as they come here on this forum..... that being said he is very well experienced and trained to do this sort of thing. And the rays in public zoos and aquariums are being handled by people that also hold such qualifications. I would not personally do something I wasn't trained or qualified for. I have had my rays since 2006 and have never once considered trimming their barbs and I never will. Personally if I was so worried about getting stung by a ray I wouldn't own one. This is like saying you are afraid of a dog biting you so you have all of its teeth removed. This is their form of protection. But I also wouldn't declaw a cat and I know a lot of people do that as well. I guess thats just my .02. I highly respect Zoodiver and always look forward to seeing his input on such issues. However I personally do not agree this one time that an untrained person should tackle something such as trimming a rays barbs simply because they are afraid, if you are afraid don't own them. The public zoos and aquariums do this practice because they are open to the general public and we all know the general public can be fairly stupid and ignorant especially where wild animals are concerned.
If we want to run with the comparison of a cat's nails (which is a good one), it's not really like de-clawing them. It's more along the lines of trimming them back. We all know a ray's barb constantly grows. We aren't looking to cut out or fully remove the barb (like a de-claw for a cat). Some have tried that, and I don't know of anyone who has done it successfully.
Trimming is very straight forward, and it something I've had interns and entry level keepers doing. If you keep rays well, it is within the range of skills you can/could have.
Since we are techincally talking SW rays (and I should probably move this thread to that section), we have to look at what type of ray we are talking about. Benthic rays (lke yellow, cortez, Atlantic, Southern etc...) all have a barb located about midway down the tail - very similar to the FW ray counterparts. THey are very good with swinging the tail to use the barb. Pelagic rays (cownose, spotted eagles etc...) have a barb right at the base of the tail. They do not have control of the barb like a benthic ray. It's more like a spine that stays in place for them due to most predatory animals coming up from straight behind.
These are pictures of a cownose stingray. The barb is at the base of the tail. These animals were conditioned to lay (mostly) still after being scooped up in a large soft rubber net. We used one person to secure the animal, and one to trim the barb. Took about 10 seconds out of the water, and they were put back and swimming normally with no signs of stress what so ever. Yes, that is my hand. You can see the base of the previous trimmed barb still attached. There is no bleeding, infections, sores or anything negative to the animals health.
On a ray that has the barb mid tail, it's a little more involved. I like to pull them out into a flat container with just enough water to cover them, and have an airstone for increased disolved oxygen levels. I use a wet towel (with tank water) to lay over the back half of the ray and the base of the tail. Then secure the tail by hand, approaching it from over the body (you don't want to move your hand up the tail from the tip towards the barb - I know, but some people try anyway). With a firm grasp on the tail so it can't swing, slide the ctter (or whatever tool you are using) up under the barb and trim. Again, you don't want to force it too far up, just get it under where you can and trim the barb. What you are looking for at the end is a blunt stub. I know I have more pics somewhere, but I'm guessing they are on my laptop at home. I'll find some and post them later to show how this type goes. More or less, it's the same process. ONce you get used to it and the rays are adapted, it's something you can do by yourself. At first I suggest a two person team in a well lighted area.
Trimming is very straight forward, and it something I've had interns and entry level keepers doing. If you keep rays well, it is within the range of skills you can/could have.
Since we are techincally talking SW rays (and I should probably move this thread to that section), we have to look at what type of ray we are talking about. Benthic rays (lke yellow, cortez, Atlantic, Southern etc...) all have a barb located about midway down the tail - very similar to the FW ray counterparts. THey are very good with swinging the tail to use the barb. Pelagic rays (cownose, spotted eagles etc...) have a barb right at the base of the tail. They do not have control of the barb like a benthic ray. It's more like a spine that stays in place for them due to most predatory animals coming up from straight behind.
These are pictures of a cownose stingray. The barb is at the base of the tail. These animals were conditioned to lay (mostly) still after being scooped up in a large soft rubber net. We used one person to secure the animal, and one to trim the barb. Took about 10 seconds out of the water, and they were put back and swimming normally with no signs of stress what so ever. Yes, that is my hand. You can see the base of the previous trimmed barb still attached. There is no bleeding, infections, sores or anything negative to the animals health.
On a ray that has the barb mid tail, it's a little more involved. I like to pull them out into a flat container with just enough water to cover them, and have an airstone for increased disolved oxygen levels. I use a wet towel (with tank water) to lay over the back half of the ray and the base of the tail. Then secure the tail by hand, approaching it from over the body (you don't want to move your hand up the tail from the tip towards the barb - I know, but some people try anyway). With a firm grasp on the tail so it can't swing, slide the ctter (or whatever tool you are using) up under the barb and trim. Again, you don't want to force it too far up, just get it under where you can and trim the barb. What you are looking for at the end is a blunt stub. I know I have more pics somewhere, but I'm guessing they are on my laptop at home. I'll find some and post them later to show how this type goes. More or less, it's the same process. ONce you get used to it and the rays are adapted, it's something you can do by yourself. At first I suggest a two person team in a well lighted area.
I wonder if zoo and public aquariums pull out piranhas teeth just to make them safe
I feel this is wrong practice and the general public should know the dangers of wild fish not have them played with like toys
Any fish can be made safe if you disarm it
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I feel this is wrong practice and the general public should know the dangers of wild fish not have them played with like toys
Any fish can be made safe if you disarm it
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I cannot help but notice that zoo diver is very well informed where as some others have no clue what they are talking about. Places like sea world make money because they have healthy animals and they employ people who actually know their stuff. I can't help but feel like other people see this barb trimming act as a way to speak out about their own personal beliefs about animal cruelty. I seriously doubt anyone passionate enough to be on a forum like this would be cruel to animals. Zoo diver is infact right. My wife worked for sea world and she had rays that would indeed come up to get their barbs trimmed without food or a net being involved.
Thank you for the good information zoo diver.
Everyone else please stop hating
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Thank you for the good information zoo diver.
Everyone else please stop hating
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How many public aquariums have piranha touch pools?? Please feel free to post a link. I would love to see one.
Also, piranha have fixed teeth with blood vessles and nerve endings in them. Stingray barbs do not.
