need plumbing/sump suggestions on 92 gallon acrylic for overstocked cichlid setup

TimTheWiner

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 6, 2015
42
2
8
Southeast CT
Height is definitely the main issue. The acrylic tower is 16" high, the cabinet about 28". If I decide to have the tower elevated to drain into the 20 gallon then then I'm up to 24" at the top of the tower. That leaves only 4" to take the top off for maintenance. I can't see any way to incorporate a sock unless it was literally inline with the pvc/drain tube. Can a square pad on the trickle tray above the bioballs be close to the effectiveness of a sock? I am open to a small refugium as some point, would just like room for some ceramic rings and some other pads/sponges. Can the heaters go right next to the return pump? I posted a couple more pics below. First is with the footprint of the 20G, very tight. Would actually have to remove the bulkhead on the tower, cover the hole with an acrylic piece and recut a hole on the right side. Second pic is with the footprint of a 15 gallon my LFS has. Offers a bit more room for maintenance and supplies in cabinet.

IMG_20170812_030755.jpg

IMG_20170812_132627.jpg
 

Oughtsix

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Apr 9, 2011
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Redmond, OR
I am to do some "water equalization" tests outside with a garden hose on that trickle (wet/dry) to simulate how it would actual drowning down into the 20 gallon sump vs along side of it. Probably quieter next to it, but I agree with the socks. Would filter pads do more/less the same thing? I calculated the FULL volume of the overflow to be 6.89 gallons at the most. So even if all of this drained into the sump then I can't see any risk of it flooding. And that wouldn't happen because the durso or other drain pipe would be at least halfway up. Makes me question if I should even do the herbie vs just the 1" as a durso and then could Y the return pump to the two 3/4" bulkheads as returns.
I have never had a saltwater weir setup so I don't have any reference to advise you by on the amount of settled overflow you will get. I think your plan of running some tests with a garden hose is a great idea! Do you have a return pump you can use to model the whole system in action? A more powerful pump will keep a bit more water "in action" in the system giving you a bit more settled overflow.

I am, of course, introducing my own preferences into my recommendations for your sump. I would definitively use filter pads on top of the trickle chamber for the bulk of the mechanical filtration. You want to remove the solid waste out the water before the water is introduced into your sump. My thought on adding filter socks to where the water enters the 20g (if feasible) was for water polishing. If the filter pads (course on top finer underneath) above the trickle chamber removes 99% of the solids fine mesh sock filters between the two sumps would be a nice way to polish the water and remove that last 1% of cloudy.

I am a bit of a clear water freak! I like REALLY clear water in my tanks. I use a full time DE filter to keep my water perfectly clear. Fine mesh socks are another way to polish the water nearly as well with less hassle than a DE filter.
 

TimTheWiner

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 6, 2015
42
2
8
Southeast CT
I'm assuming most pre filter and filter pads are not as fine as a 100 or 200 micron sock. If that's the case I could do a blue/white pad on the top of trickle chamber. I don't know if the ceramic rings should just be placed below the water line in the 3" always submerged at the bottom of/next tp thr bio ball chamber or if they benefit from being splashed over like the bioballs. If that's the case then I could put them in the first baffle chamber in the larger sump with water spilling over them as well. I'll have to draw up a few scenarios to see what looks best.
 

TimTheWiner

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 6, 2015
42
2
8
Southeast CT
Sorrt for the hundred questions but you guys have been VERY helpful. If I do end up with a herbie with 2 drains instead of a single durso with 2 returns then should I do one of those barb fitting type ball valves inline with the vinyl tubing or should I put a barb fitting on a pvc ball valve. I don't know if I is better than the other. I know a herbie needs to be fine tuned.
 

DN328

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Aug 14, 2014
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You could also just use PVC down to the sump. I would definitely suggest a gate valve on the main siphon drain. I also would add a ball valve on the trickle, but the valve is always kept open. It's more for closing off for maintenance if ever needed.

Edit: this is for the Herbie you wanting to implement.
 
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TimTheWiner

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 6, 2015
42
2
8
Southeast CT
I was hoping to use vinyl braided BUT it will be a fairly sharp bend to the drain and I have seen them kink (while packaged in store at least). I want some flexibility so I can lift out that top tray to clean/replace pads. Not a big fan of unions. Maybe hard plumb the drains just enough to the cabinet and valves then go to barb/braided vinyl from there.
 

Oughtsix

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Apr 9, 2011
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Redmond, OR
I have found that filling a filter bag with ceramic rings and placing it underneath the bioballs with an air stone under the ceramic rings to work very well. The air stone provides oxygen to the ceramic rings and also provides a constant flow of fresh air to the trickle chamber. The bag of ceramic media also does a great job of anchoring the air stone.

I have a better understanding you the height issues you are dealing with. In my experience I would prioritize ease of maintenance over the extra filtering the filter socks would provide. In my experience an easily maintained filter will always function better than a complex neglected filter.
 
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Oughtsix

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Apr 9, 2011
1,600
553
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Redmond, OR
I was hoping to use vinyl braided BUT it will be a fairly sharp bend to the drain and I have seen them kink (while packaged in store at least). I want some flexibility so I can lift out that top tray to clean/replace pads. Not a big fan of unions. Maybe hard plumb the drains just enough to the cabinet and valves then go to barb/braided vinyl from there.
I have used clear vinyl, reinforced braided vinyl, flexible pool tubing, flexible pvc and even rubber rose. The easiest tubing I have found to work with is the black pond tubing!

Ghosts of projects past:
20170812_122026.jpg
 

TimTheWiner

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 6, 2015
42
2
8
Southeast CT
Seems like the black would be good for prohibiting algae growth I've just seen pics of cracked tubing between the ribs. Do they use standard barb fittings as well? I actually think I could do a filter sock in the top of the trickle chamber and use the draw string or ty wrap to keep it affixed. I would just have to make a small gap for the string to fit snug. See pic, under tray lid. Only thing is this would already be the finest filtration correct? Thus eliminating the need for any further pads/floss?

IMG_20170812_154536.jpg
 

Oughtsix

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Apr 9, 2011
1,600
553
150
Redmond, OR
5/8" clear, 3/4" braid reinforced clear, 3/4" black pond and 1" black pond.

20170812_125517.jpg

The 3/4" and 1" in this picture is over 10 years old. The pond tubing is made to be used out doors. I have never had a problem with the black pond tubing cracking between the web. In my experience I believe the black pond tubing will way outlast vinyl tubing. The black pond tubing is not the same thing as the corrugated pool hose. 3/4" and 1" barbed pipe fitting work very well with the black pond tubing. In my junk bin I think you can see a piece of 1" black pond tubing on 1" pvc barbs.

The flexibility without kinking is why I find the black pond tubing so nice to use. The lack of light and no algae is just a bonus!
 
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