Can you reduce quarantine time with pre treatment?

jaws7777

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I guess I’ll be the one who goes against the grain here. I have pre medicated my fish using the method above during quarantine and found no problems doing so. I used it to be proactive and protect my main stock from the new fish as the fish I got were fed feeders like most are. I wouldn’t use it to try and speed up a qt but in addition to it.
Not the only one. I always do a couple.of rounds of parasite treatment with new fish. Ive been lucky to not have a new fish come in with anything exotic though.

One time a bichir had some sort of crustacean. I ended up just pulling off and monitoring the fish while in QT.

The only time i didnt treat with meds while in qt i ended up with issues in the main tank
 

FINWIN

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Not the only one. I always do a couple.of rounds of parasite treatment with new fish. Ive been lucky to not have a new fish come in with anything exotic though.

One time a bichir had some sort of crustacean. I ended up just pulling off and monitoring the fish while in QT.

The only time i didnt treat with meds while in qt i ended up with issues in the main tank
What did you run across the most? Ick, gill flukes or worms?
 

RD.

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Barrett, I forgot a med that I used a couple yrs back, copper. I have always used copper to treat ich, unfortunately Coppersafe hasn't been available in Canada since it was bought out by another vendor. The copper product made by Seachem, which is what I have used in the last 10 yrs is a bit trickier to use, compared to Coppersafe.



BTW - I'm in no way suggesting that one can't, or shouldn't treat newly purchased fish. I'm really only against using meds in a shotgun approach, especially antibiotics. The whole concept of QT is to prevent introducing disease/pathogens into an established tank. Even public zoos and aquariums use prophylactic measures with new fish, but they are selective in the meds being utilized. Interesting to note that some of the same meds that I listed are commonly used by public aquariums and zoos.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22204059

Fish quarantine: current practices in public zoos and aquaria.
Hadfield CA1, Clayton LA.
Author information

Abstract
The primary goal of quarantine is to reduce the risk of introducing infectious diseases into established collections. Fish quarantine is inherently complex because of the variety of species, environmental requirements, and facilities. To examine current practices, questionnaires were submitted to 60 public zoos and aquaria, predominantly in North America. Questions reviewed system type (closed, flow-through), quarantine length, diagnostics, treatments, and cleaning and disinfection. Forty-two of the 60 institutions responded. Most institutions had separate quarantine protocols for freshwater teleosts, marine teleosts, and elasmobranchs. Ninety-five percent of institutions had a minimum quarantine period of 30 days or more. Sixty-four percent of institutions used isolated areas for some or all of their fish quarantine. Twenty-five percent had designated fish quarantine staff. All institutions used regular visual examinations to assess animal health. Fifty-four percent of the institutions carried out routine hands-on diagnostics on some fish; this was more common for elasmobranchs than teleosts. All institutions carried out necropsies on mortalities. Fifteen percent of institutions performed histopathology on almost all fresh mortalities; 54% percent performed histopathology on less than 10% of mortalities. Prophylactic treatments were common in closed systems, in particular, formalin immersion for teleosts, freshwater dips and copper sulfate immersion for marine teleosts, and praziquantel immersion for marine teleosts and elasmobranchs. Institutions using dips generally did so at the start or end of quarantine. Fenbendazole- and praziquantel-medicated foods were used commonly in teleosts, but dosages varied greatly. Cleaning and disinfection of systems and equipment increased in response to known pathogens. These results can be used to compare and discuss fish quarantine practices at display facilities in order to improve quarantine success.
 
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Cardeater

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Cory definitely does believe in his med trio as he just showed in his latest videos that he does treat the incoming fish with it.

My current procedure is two rounds of levamisole, 2&3 weeks apart and a round of general cure. I treat and then treat again in 48 hours as directions say for use.

I have ended up with at least 3 months in QT.

I do like how Divers Den does a quaratine and pretreatment parasites.

As for med trio, I tried that with my first batch of new fish last May. Two of the three loaches died.

I acruactu think they would have died anyway. I went against my better judgement and didn't wait for them to settle in the store.

After learning more, I don't like the erythromycin treatment for reasons listed in this thread. Also now I figure if I'm gonna do a pretreatment with an antibiotic, I'd rather use something like kanaplex,but I'd rather not treat.

I think the ick X is actually mild so I suppose I would consider using if it made you feel better. I feel that with my 3+ month quarantine s, ick should show itself .

I believe in the deworming bc often it doesn't show obvious symptoms until fish is really sick. Also I figure wild fish like clown Loach have a good chance of having parasites.
 

jaws7777

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What did you run across the most? Ick, gill flukes or worms?
Nothing crazy. Ich internal parasites, bichir worms. Other than the one time i encountered callumanus worms.

I guess for me the parasite treatment is a little false peace of mind considering all the possible diseases the fish can come in with. I dont keep them in qt for long time unless theres a visible issue so the parasite treatments help me justify the short stay in qt.
 

FINWIN

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Pre-treating fish doesn't necessarily equate to using antibiotics. I would personally never use antibiotics just because.

On the other hand other meds can be quite safe when used properly, and can be quite sensible for a hobbyist to use as a form of treatment with new fish. As an example, IMO & IME all newly acquired flowerhorn that come from Thailand, Vietnam, etc, should be dewormed. After following a proper deworming protocol I also always advise treating for Spironucleus aka Hexamita, as this is extremely common in juvenile flowerhorn raised in these parts of the world. (where live blood worm are fed as main source of food) The latter can often be resolved using something as simple as epsom salt, only more advanced stages typically require antibiotics such as Metronidazole.

Several decades of overuse & total abuse of antibiotics is why my country no longer allows the sale of those meds at LFS. Vet script only now.


I posted the following here on MFK several yrs ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23294440/

Imported ornamental fish are colonized with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Rose S, et al. J Fish Dis. 2013.

Abstract
There has been growing concern about the overuse of antibiotics in the ornamental fish industry and its possible effect on the increasing drug resistance in both commensal and pathogenic organisms in these fish. The aim of this study was to carry out an assessment of the diversity of bacteria, including pathogens, in ornamental fish species imported into North America and to assess their antibiotic resistance. Kidney samples were collected from 32 freshwater ornamental fish of various species, which arrived to an importing facility in Portland, Oregon from Colombia, Singapore and Florida. Sixty-four unique bacterial colonies were isolated and identified by PCR using bacterial 16S primers and DNA sequencing. Multiple isolates were identified as bacteria with potential to cause disease in both fish and humans. The antibiotic resistance profile of each isolate was performed for nine different antibiotics. Among them, cefotaxime (16% resistance among isolates) was the antibiotic associated with more activity, while the least active was tetracycline (77% resistant). Knowing information about the diversity of bacteria in imported ornamental fish, as well as the resistance profiles for the bacteria will be useful in more effectively treating clinical infected fish, and also potential zoonoses in the future.


And a follow up of that study.

https://today.oregonstate.edu/archi...industry-faces-problems-antibiotic-resistance

Ornamental fish industry faces problems with antibiotic resistance

January 15, 2013
NEWPORT, Ore. - The $15 billion ornamental fish industry faces a global problem with antibiotic resistance, a new study concludes, raising concern that treatments for fish diseases may not work when needed - and creating yet another mechanism for exposing humans to antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

The risk to humans is probably minor unless they frequently work with fish or have compromised immune systems, researchers said, although transmission of disease from tropical fish has been shown to occur. More serious is the risk to this industry, which has grown significantly in recent years, and is now a $900 million annual business in the United States.

There are few regulations in the U.S. or elsewhere about treating ornamental fish with antibiotics, experts say. Antibiotics are used routinely, such as when fish are facing stress due to transport, whether or not they have shown any sign of disease.

"We expected to find some antibiotic resistance, but it was surprising to find such high levels, including resistance in some cases where the antibiotic is rarely used," said Tim Miller-Morgan, a veterinary aquatics specialist with Oregon State University. "We appear to already have set ourselves up for some pretty serious problems within the industry."

In the new study, 32 freshwater fish of various species were tested for resistance to nine different antibiotics, and some resistance was found to every antibiotic. The highest level of resistance, 77 percent, was found with the common antibiotic tetracycline. The fish were tested in Portland, Ore., after being transported from Colombia, Singapore and Florida.

Findings of the study were reported in the Journal of Fish Diseases.

The bacterial infections found in the fish included Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus and others, several of which can infect both fish and humans.

"The range of resistance is often quite disturbing," the scientists wrote in their report. "It is not uncommon to see resistance to a wide range of antibiotic classes, including beta-lactams, macrolides, tetracyclines, sulphonamides, quinolones, cephalosporins and chloramphenicol."

Problems and concerns with antibiotic resistance have been growing for years, Miller-Morgan said. The nature of the resistance can range widely, causing an antibiotic to lose some, or all of its effectiveness.

There have been documented cases of disease transmission from fish to humans, he said, but it's not common. It would be a particular concern for anyone with a weak or compromised immune system, he pointed out, and people with such health issues should discuss tropical fish management with their physician. Workers who constantly handle tropical fish may also face a higher level of risk.

From an industry perspective, losses of fish to bacterial disease may become increasingly severe, he said, because antibiotics will lose their effectiveness.

Anyone handling tropical fish can use some basic precautions that should help, Miller-Morgan said. Consumers should buy only healthy fish; avoid cleaning tanks with open cuts or sores on their hands; use gloves; immediately remove sick fish from tanks; consider quarantining all new fish in a separate tank for 30 days; wash hands after working with fish; and never use antibiotics in a fish tank unless actually treating a known fish disease caused by bacteria.

"We don't think individuals should ever use antibiotics in a random, preventive or prophylactic method," Miller-Morgan said. "Even hobbyists can learn more about how to identify tropical fish parasites and diseases, and use antibiotics only if a bacterial disease is diagnosed."

On an industry level, he said, considerable progress could be made with improvements in fish husbandry, better screening and handling, and use of quarantines, rather than antibiotics, to reduce fish disease.

The ornamental fish industry is large and diverse, including trade of more than 6,000 species of freshwater and marine fish from more than 100 different countries. About half the supply originates in Asia, and freshwater farming of ornamental fish is a rapidly growing industry.



Also increasing is the number of trained fish veterinarians, who can help fish hobbyists to reduce disease loss and save treasured pets. More information is available from the World Aquatic Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Fish Veterinarians. A database of aquatic veterinarians is available online, at http://aquavetmed.info
I nodded when I read this because everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY I know that got an imported flowerhorn had these issues and nonstop battles with worms and/or hole in the head. None of the fish lasted more than 2-3 years. They spent more time running out and buying "Clear" than they did enjoying their fish.
 
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