Growth on mouth - URGENT assistance please

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Once I first noticed the symptoms of a jaw beginning to atrophy in my fish, it usually died within a week.
If it was the only fish in the tank, what have you got to lose by disinfecting it, other than time, elbow grease and a cycle.
Dormant Columnaris cysts can exist in a smear of dried mud on the glass indefinitely, and reanimate when water is returned.
It might take 6 months for them to return to infective status, but you can see the damage the disease can do once established.
 
Thank for everyone's help.
I hit the tank with a
second dose of Tri-Sulfa yesterday afternoon
Unfortunately what ever it was progressed so quickly overnight the growth swelled so large it blocked his whole mouth and he was dead this morning
So now
the tank is basically in quarantine, i will do some large water changes over the next few days to clear the tri-sulfa
And consider the tanks long term future if duanes duanes was correct

Thank everyone for the
help anyway

RIP - Brutus
Sorry for the loss.
 
Columnaris and nearly every other potential bacterial pathogen is a normal resident of the aquatic environment. It would be almost impossible to eliminate them.

You would have to bleach everything including your current fish, all new fish, water for water changes, and thoroughly sanitize your hands before you do anything in the tank.
 
Can columnaris advance so quickly ?

Yes, there are several known strains and yours appears to be one of the acute strains.


Once I first noticed the symptoms of a jaw beginning to atrophy in my fish, it usually died within a week.
If it was the only fish in the tank, what have you got to lose by disinfecting it, other than time, elbow grease and a cycle.
Dormant Columnaris cysts can exist in a smear of dried mud on the glass indefinitely, and reanimate when water is returned.
It might take 6 months for them to return to infective status, but you can see the damage the disease can do once established.

+1
 
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Columnaris and nearly every other potential bacterial pathogen is a normal resident of the aquatic environment. It would be almost impossible to eliminate them.

You would have to bleach everything including your current fish, all new fish, water for water changes, and thoroughly sanitize your hands before you do anything in the tank.
I agree with this.
And in some instances, with certain virulent strains, it is my preferred recourse, which include euthanasia, as repugnant as that is.
 
Although some strains of columnaris may be treatable, and the disease has been around forever.
I had never experienced it in my cichlid tanks, until the late 80s, or early 90s.
I believe this coincides with the advent of the flower horn.
Because these first FHs were not hardy, (in the same manner as EBJDs sometimes "aren't")) in order to get as many sellable individuals to market as possible.
Large production fish farms tossed copious amounts of antibiotics at them, in the same way certain large crammed up animal lots often do.
In cattle this overuse of antibiotics helped produce E coli 157. and other resistant E coli strains
And the results of fish farm overuse, have produced antibiotic resistant strains of Columnaris, that now not only infect FHs, but have been able to target other cichlids as well.
It's no wonder in the 90s, Columnaris was dubbed flower horn disease, before the common term duck lips was coined, in the 60s it was often called live bearer disease, and coincidentally happened when creating live bearer hybrids was all the rage.
 
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FH's aren't typically produced in large production fish farms, in fact, the exact opposite. It sounds like a nice theory, but a more realistic theory is the millions upon millions of other designer fish that hit the fish scene around the same time, where antibiotics are widely used, is IMO more likely what kick started the advent of the more virulent strains of this disease. As one example, designer strains of discus have been around a LOT longer than flowerhorn.

I have owned several flowerhorn over the years, along with various other hybrid fish, and never once had a case of this disease in one of my tanks. Maybe I was just born lucky?


Regarding the use & abuse of antibiotics in aquaculture, I posted the following years ago.


Imported ornamental fish are colonized with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Rose S, Hill R, Bermudez LE, Miller-Morgan T.
SourceDepartment of Biomedical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA; Department of Microbiology, College of Science, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA.

Abstract
There has been growing concern about the overuse of antibiotics in the ornamental fish industry and its possible effect on the increasing drug resistance in both commensal and pathogenic organisms in these fish. The aim of this study was to carry out an assessment of the diversity of bacteria, including pathogens, in ornamental fish species imported into North America and to assess their antibiotic resistance. Kidney samples were collected from 32 freshwater ornamental fish of various species, which arrived to an importing facility in Portland, Oregon from Colombia, Singapore and Florida. Sixty-four unique bacterial colonies were isolated and identified by PCR using bacterial 16S primers and DNA sequencing. Multiple isolates were identified as bacteria with potential to cause disease in both fish and humans. The antibiotic resistance profile of each isolate was performed for nine different antibiotics. Among them, cefotaxime (16% resistance among isolates) was the antibiotic associated with more activity, while the least active was tetracycline (77% resistant). Knowing information about the diversity of bacteria in imported ornamental fish, as well as the resistance profiles for the bacteria will be useful in more effectively treating clinical infected fish, and also potential zoonoses in the future.

© 2013 Blackwell Publishing Ltd.


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Fancy fish could harbor dangerous bacteria

by Rose Eveleth February 6, 2013 03:00am PST



Around the world, private collectors and businesses maintain beautiful fish tanks stocked with colorful corals, speedy little cichlids and stately angelfish. But a hidden danger lurks: many fish that wind up in aquariums carry antibiotic-resistant bacteria that could pose a threat not just to a billion-dollar industry but to human health.

A recent study published in the Journal of Fish Diseases measured 32 different ornamental fish that entered the port in Portland, Ore., from places such as Colombia, Singapore and Florida. The specimen were found to carry 64 different bacterial colonies, and many were resistant to antibiotics to varying degrees. The bottom line: not only were the fish more susceptible to infection, but their bacteria harbored genes that could make them immune to drugs - genes they can pass along.

Resistance to antibiotics can develop in a number of ways, but the most common culprit is overtreatment, a practice commonly used when fish are transported.

The chain of events is pretty easy to follow. The majority of ornamental fish start their lives in Asia and other exotic locations and are shipped all across the globe. Those trips aren't a walk in the park for the animals, says Luiz Bermudez, a microbiologist at Oregon State University, and one of the researchers on the study.

It's stressful even if we humans get in an airplane and fly for 14 hours; he says, so when a fish gets to a destination, many times the fish presents with a kind of stress-related disease.

To prevent stocks from going belly-up before they reach their destination, many importers often proactively treat their catch with antibiotics. That, says Bermudez, is a big driver of the antibiotic resistance his team found in the study.

How antibiotic resistance spreads

It's not just fish who might be in trouble, either. That's because a resistant bacterial strain can pass its resistance to another species, Bermudez says.

So, in theory, an antibiotic-resistant fish bacteria could transfer the set of genes that confer that resistance to a bacteria that infects humans, Bermudez says. That means a human bacteria that was formerly felled by certain antibiotics would suddenly become immune to them.

Complicating matters is the fact that many antibiotics used to fight fish bacteria are the same ones widely used on humans. Among the antibiotics that the fish bacteria were best at warding off is Tetracycline, a drug used to treat everything from acne to rosacea to cholera in humans. Up to 77 percent of the studied specimens were resistant to this drug.

While it is unlikely that these bacteria will be transmitted from fish to humans, both fish owners and importers should be extra careful. If you're going to clean a fish tank, you should be aware that there is a possibility that you're going to get some infection, he says.

Aside from the health implications, antibiotic resistance could be a drain on the bottom line for aquarium suppliers. The global market for ornamental fish is worth an estimated $15 billion each year. The world spends $900 million a year alone on just the live fish - a figure that has grown an average of 14 percent each year for the past 25 years. Should certain fish become entirely resistant to the antibiotics that help them survive, the industry could suffer a huge economic blow totaling millions of dollars.

Bermudez says the ornamental fish industry isn't deaf to the dangers of antibiotic resistance. It has already made some changes based on his teams research - such as treating fish less frequently with antibiotics unless necessary and figuring out how to ship them more safely.

But the industry deals with 6,000-plus species of fish, shipping from more than 100 countries, and most countries have no specific regulations regarding antibiotic use. So while individual suppliers might do their part to cut back on antibiotics, many are likely to continue preemptively treating their stocks to avoid disease.

There are still some open questions for researchers studying this antibiotic resistance. For example, Bermudez wants to understand whether or not the bacterial community of imported fish changes after a few weeks at a facility in the United States. Perhaps, he says, importers could eliminate fish with these resistant strains before they are transported to fish tanks across the country, preventing the resistance from spreading

For fish and humans alike, the vicious cycle of antibiotic resistance should be a serious concern. That's because the fewer antibiotics that work to fight a particular disease, the more likely it is to have a negative impact on the population. The more resistant genes that exist, the more likely other bacteria are to become resistant. The longer suppliers rely on antibiotics to broadly safeguard stocks, the more likely they are to develop resistance.

So now we're facing a kind of a crisis situation in the case of humans and animals, that many times we don't have antibiotics or we only have one antibiotic that can be used to kill the microorganisms that's causing the infection, and that's a serious problem, Bermudez says.


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Don't blame the fish, hybrids or not - humans created the current mess that we are in.
 
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I believe Asian grow out fish farms may be the exception to the limited production rule with FHs.
And I do not blame the fish, I agree it is the fault of profiteers.
And agree, it not only applies to FHs, the mass production of Swai (Pangasius) in less than pristine conditions, has come to a point that there health concerns from eating them, even after being cooked, have been expressed
 
Which is why Canada has banned the sale of antibiotics to hobbyists, without a script from a DVM.
 
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