I have often wondered how you could afford to do what you do as I know how expensive our hobby is and you are one of the ones that has taken it to another level
Still wondering (and in wonder) ?
Still wondering (and in wonder) ?
Rescuing fish is done out of love, that is everything opposite of the love of money...
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
Thank you all for lavishing on me your compassion, understanding, and praise! As much as I appreciate it, I don't feel I deserve it. My darling wife has been bearing the financial end of it all, having been working 2+ hourly loads as a teacher of mathematics at colleges and a highschool for the last decade, 3 to 4 colleges and schools at any given time. So I owe it all to her. My goal of this post was mostly to demonstrate the bookkeeping of this kind of endeavor. I do get some "perks" from this activity, like the pleasure of observing, working with, and learning about these fish. It strokes my collector / hoarder femur bone too haha...
We have been visited by fellow MFKers before and all MFKers are always more than welcome!
Thank you. Right. Overgrown fish is no commodity, the market is tiny and the able adopters are few and they usually don't want the "common fish" as they already have it or had it. For these reasons, the rescued fish barely moves. Ohio Fish Rescue (OFR) move most fish to Public Aquaria and Zoos and are very lucky that these institutions would work with them. The AZA - Association of Zoos and Aquariums - only deal within themselves and don't generally work with others, hobbyists, private people, rescuers, etc. The OFR don't get paid for their fish.
Thank you. We thought about it. It seems to come down to individual store managers and the corresponding department managers to make a decision. We've not found one locally yet. To them, this can be a liability or at least a hassle. To us too - the donated expired products would have to be sorted by them or by us and mistakes can be made, which may wipe out the benefit.
Thank you. Definitely on a shoestring
Once you see it, you will drop the "probably" haha... but I understand using it before you see it. Seeing is believing.
Thank you. Visitors have never been stopped but it has been by appointment and free of charge so far and not really encouraged because we are a one-man show (sponsored by one wonder woman) ... so when I entertain visitors, I am not building, and we are not progressing to the opening.
Thank you. Right and true on paper but as always reality bites. One in 50 is able and willing to bring their fish to us, no matter same city or 2-3 hours away. The same one in 50 gives us $20-$50 to go along with their donated / rescued fish. It's a droplet in the bucket as you see from the original post but every little bit helps and appreciated a lot, of course.
A weird hybrid of business and charity, huh? That's an awesome way of articulating what we do, thanks! I don't feel people take advantage of me. Far from it. Not at all. I just hold up my end of the deal as best I could and don't analyze what others think or do. If I can go rescue a fish, I do. If I can't, I don't. Live and let live is one of my convictions. It's a free country (with all the caveats), praise the Lord!
Rescue is a smaller part of our overall effort and focus. Education is and will be.
Thank you. Now you know my shining huge secret of finding one in a gazillion wife and can put to rest one of your wonders I personally struggle to understand how she still tolerates me and believes in me after 10 years of building this venture.
We have been visited by fellow MFKers before and all MFKers are always more than welcome!
Thank you. Right. Overgrown fish is no commodity, the market is tiny and the able adopters are few and they usually don't want the "common fish" as they already have it or had it. For these reasons, the rescued fish barely moves. Ohio Fish Rescue (OFR) move most fish to Public Aquaria and Zoos and are very lucky that these institutions would work with them. The AZA - Association of Zoos and Aquariums - only deal within themselves and don't generally work with others, hobbyists, private people, rescuers, etc. The OFR don't get paid for their fish.
Thank you. We thought about it. It seems to come down to individual store managers and the corresponding department managers to make a decision. We've not found one locally yet. To them, this can be a liability or at least a hassle. To us too - the donated expired products would have to be sorted by them or by us and mistakes can be made, which may wipe out the benefit.
Thank you. Definitely on a shoestring
Once you see it, you will drop the "probably" haha... but I understand using it before you see it. Seeing is believing.Thank you. Visitors have never been stopped but it has been by appointment and free of charge so far and not really encouraged because we are a one-man show (sponsored by one wonder woman)
... so when I entertain visitors, I am not building, and we are not progressing to the opening.Thank you. Right and true on paper but as always reality bites. One in 50 is able and willing to bring their fish to us, no matter same city or 2-3 hours away. The same one in 50 gives us $20-$50 to go along with their donated / rescued fish. It's a droplet in the bucket as you see from the original post but every little bit helps and appreciated a lot, of course.
A weird hybrid of business and charity, huh? That's an awesome way of articulating what we do, thanks! I don't feel people take advantage of me. Far from it. Not at all. I just hold up my end of the deal as best I could and don't analyze what others think or do. If I can go rescue a fish, I do. If I can't, I don't. Live and let live is one of my convictions. It's a free country (with all the caveats), praise the Lord!
Rescue is a smaller part of our overall effort and focus. Education is and will be.
Thank you. Now you know my shining huge secret of finding one in a gazillion wife and can put to rest one of your wonders
I personally struggle to understand how she still tolerates me and believes in me after 10 years of building this venture.
Adoption facilities help fuel the industry by allowing any hobbyist an alternative method if they can’t house a fish long term. Make the argument you are there to educate won’t change the fact that you actually provide the hobby with a disservice. The only positive that I see is the fish won’t end up in the waterways. Now if euthanization was a more adopted practice such issues wouldn’t arise. A service to the hobby would be taking that fish and slapping it on the BBQ. Open up a fish and chips with your adoption service.
The number of ads I see with the title “we will take in your unwanted fish” are clearly done with the intent to make a quick flip off the fish you donate.
If you are going to open your books as you say, why not show the full picture? How many fish do you profit from? An RTC and paroon shark are obviously difficult fish to sell. Using such fish would be an extreme example. What about the stingrays, datnoids, peacock bass that you bring in that sell in a few days to a few weeks? I imagine not every fish is held for a year to 15 before a buyer is found.
If your moral standards are so high as to not reduce your own costs by euthanizing then I personally will not pity you. Why not filet a few of them to feed the other fish? I’m sure the 10s of thousands of tilapia a year will thank you.
The number of ads I see with the title “we will take in your unwanted fish” are clearly done with the intent to make a quick flip off the fish you donate.
If you are going to open your books as you say, why not show the full picture? How many fish do you profit from? An RTC and paroon shark are obviously difficult fish to sell. Using such fish would be an extreme example. What about the stingrays, datnoids, peacock bass that you bring in that sell in a few days to a few weeks? I imagine not every fish is held for a year to 15 before a buyer is found.
If your moral standards are so high as to not reduce your own costs by euthanizing then I personally will not pity you. Why not filet a few of them to feed the other fish? I’m sure the 10s of thousands of tilapia a year will thank you.
Thank you for your critical review. I appreciate it.
Adoption facilities help fuel the industry by allowing any hobbyist an alternative method if they can’t house a fish long term. Make the argument you are there to educate won’t change the fact that you actually provide the hobby with a disservice.
***I vaguely recall we have touched on this with you before. I respect your opinion but hold the opposite one. As a rule, we make the people, who find themselves unable to care for their large pet fish anymore, aware of what went wrong and we do not entertain repeat and entrenched offenders. This too is a part of our "education and awareness" method. Not that it is really needed anyway. Most usually our fish donors are sincerely repentant and in the 13 years of doing it I recall only 2-3 guys asking me "So if I get another large-growing fish and it outgrows my tank, will you take it in?", to which we replied that it would result in aiding and abetting the cruelty and go against what we preach, hence, no.
The only positive that I see is the fish won’t end up in the waterways. Now if euthanization was a more adopted practice such issues wouldn’t arise. A service to the hobby would be taking that fish and slapping it on the BBQ. Open up a fish and chips with your adoption service.
***That'd be no Fish Rescue but a Fish Death Camp. No one will give their fish to such a venture but rather let them out into the local waterways, and I'd almost understand them because people naturally develop feelings for their pets. Moreover, it's not a good idea to feed humans the fish that wasn't raised as a food fish and wasn't killed as a food fish. Food and Drug Administration of the USA is a serious organization. I'd like to stay within legal means and avoid fines and jail.
The number of ads I see with the title “we will take in your unwanted fish” are clearly done with the intent to make a quick flip off the fish you donate.
***Neither you nor I know this and if some people do this successfully, I see no harm. Let them make money. Live and let live. I suspect these are either aficionados and collectors like me, older guys with new large ponds to fill, or kids making extra $20 a week on a flipped oscar. But even if this is some malicious scheme, just because there are prostitutes out there doesn't invalidate the ads of honest people looking for meaningful relationships, so to speak.
If you are going to open your books as you say, why not show the full picture?
***I don't keep such books, I have no time for it. What I relayed above are the numbers in my head.
How many fish do you profit from?
***We lose money on about a 100 new fish a year.
An RTC and paroon shark are obviously difficult fish to sell. Using such fish would be an extreme example.
***I gave a typical and easy-to-grasp picture. Giving extreme examples equates to intentional misleading.
What about the stingrays, datnoids, peacock bass that you bring in that sell in a few days to a few weeks? I imagine not every fish is held for a year to 15 before a buyer is found.
***99% of rescued fish are common stuff - common pleco, koi, goldfish, cichlids, etc. stuff one buys at big box chain stores. The fish you list hold high resale value and people most usually have no problem selling them, no need for a rescue. In 13 years, we have had 3 pbass, one silver datnoid and no stringrays donated to us.
If your moral standards are so high as to not reduce your own costs by euthanizing then I personally will not pity you. Why not filet a few of them to feed the other fish? I’m sure the 10s of thousands of tilapia a year will thank you.
***I don't claim high morality, any morality, and don't look for emotional or monetary benefit with this post. I am merely sharing my hobby and knowledge and look to learn from others. I have no desire to run a fish death camp. I feed almost all the fish that died in our care not from potentially dangerous, contagious illness to our living fish.
HTH.
Adoption facilities help fuel the industry by allowing any hobbyist an alternative method if they can’t house a fish long term. Make the argument you are there to educate won’t change the fact that you actually provide the hobby with a disservice.
***I vaguely recall we have touched on this with you before. I respect your opinion but hold the opposite one. As a rule, we make the people, who find themselves unable to care for their large pet fish anymore, aware of what went wrong and we do not entertain repeat and entrenched offenders. This too is a part of our "education and awareness" method. Not that it is really needed anyway. Most usually our fish donors are sincerely repentant and in the 13 years of doing it I recall only 2-3 guys asking me "So if I get another large-growing fish and it outgrows my tank, will you take it in?", to which we replied that it would result in aiding and abetting the cruelty and go against what we preach, hence, no.
The only positive that I see is the fish won’t end up in the waterways. Now if euthanization was a more adopted practice such issues wouldn’t arise. A service to the hobby would be taking that fish and slapping it on the BBQ. Open up a fish and chips with your adoption service.
***That'd be no Fish Rescue but a Fish Death Camp. No one will give their fish to such a venture but rather let them out into the local waterways, and I'd almost understand them because people naturally develop feelings for their pets. Moreover, it's not a good idea to feed humans the fish that wasn't raised as a food fish and wasn't killed as a food fish. Food and Drug Administration of the USA is a serious organization. I'd like to stay within legal means and avoid fines and jail.
The number of ads I see with the title “we will take in your unwanted fish” are clearly done with the intent to make a quick flip off the fish you donate.
***Neither you nor I know this and if some people do this successfully, I see no harm. Let them make money. Live and let live. I suspect these are either aficionados and collectors like me, older guys with new large ponds to fill, or kids making extra $20 a week on a flipped oscar. But even if this is some malicious scheme, just because there are prostitutes out there doesn't invalidate the ads of honest people looking for meaningful relationships, so to speak.
If you are going to open your books as you say, why not show the full picture?
***I don't keep such books, I have no time for it. What I relayed above are the numbers in my head.
How many fish do you profit from?
***We lose money on about a 100 new fish a year.
An RTC and paroon shark are obviously difficult fish to sell. Using such fish would be an extreme example.
***I gave a typical and easy-to-grasp picture. Giving extreme examples equates to intentional misleading.
What about the stingrays, datnoids, peacock bass that you bring in that sell in a few days to a few weeks? I imagine not every fish is held for a year to 15 before a buyer is found.
***99% of rescued fish are common stuff - common pleco, koi, goldfish, cichlids, etc. stuff one buys at big box chain stores. The fish you list hold high resale value and people most usually have no problem selling them, no need for a rescue. In 13 years, we have had 3 pbass, one silver datnoid and no stringrays donated to us.
If your moral standards are so high as to not reduce your own costs by euthanizing then I personally will not pity you. Why not filet a few of them to feed the other fish? I’m sure the 10s of thousands of tilapia a year will thank you.
***I don't claim high morality, any morality, and don't look for emotional or monetary benefit with this post. I am merely sharing my hobby and knowledge and look to learn from others. I have no desire to run a fish death camp. I feed almost all the fish that died in our care not from potentially dangerous, contagious illness to our living fish.
HTH.
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an obvious crude joke that surpassed what you can comprehend.
Irrelevant to the question being asked. How many do you PROFIT from.
The typical and easy to grasp example happens to fit the idea that it’s a money losing situation yet you point out these extreme losers make up a mere 1% of what you adopt. Like I said, using an extreme example.
I don’t recall koi being difficult to resell at any size. Hundreds of thousands of ponds across North America are filled with koi. A highly desirable fish for people. If that makes up 33% of what is donated that would be a profitable venture in my mind.
Goldfish yet another easy fish to sell for the most part and a fish that has a track record to be used as feeders...
cichlids similar to those above. Turn the donated fish into profit, move them fast. Don’t sit on the same cichlid for 15 years.
I recon a pleco along with the remaining 1% of the extreme cases wouldn’t be all that easy to sell.
I find it interesting that you are aware of how much money you lose a year yet you don’t have any books to keep track of such losses or any potential gains. From a business stand point this seems pretty amateurish.
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Please take a deep breath and have a Snickers. There’s no reason to be combative.
I dont think he's being combative, just critical, and understandably so. Lots of scammers out there these days, though even I would never be so brazen as to call
thebiggerthebetter
one of those.
I will comment on the koi issue
Lepisosteus
. Florida is a state overrun with koi ponds, and 99% of koi out there, especially those being put up for adoption, are what koi hobbyists would call "low quality", so I can easily see somebody offloading dozens at a time to a fish rescue when they can no longer care for them or have lost interest.
The other inherent point I would like to make is why would
thebiggerthebetter
create this thread, drawing attention to the profit or lack thereof of his enterprise, if there was something to hide? Seems counter productive to draw attention to oneself if it was a well oiled fish flipping machine all along.
thebiggerthebetter
one of those.I will comment on the koi issue
Lepisosteus
. Florida is a state overrun with koi ponds, and 99% of koi out there, especially those being put up for adoption, are what koi hobbyists would call "low quality", so I can easily see somebody offloading dozens at a time to a fish rescue when they can no longer care for them or have lost interest.The other inherent point I would like to make is why would
thebiggerthebetter
create this thread, drawing attention to the profit or lack thereof of his enterprise, if there was something to hide? Seems counter productive to draw attention to oneself if it was a well oiled fish flipping machine all along.
I’m sure even the lowest quality of koi can quickly be flipped to fill ponds. Not everyone is a critic to the quality of fish and I would argue most people filling koi pond would prefer larger fish that are easily seen as opposed to tiny fish that hide.I dont think he's being combative, just critical, and understandably so. Lots of scammers out there these days, though even I would never be so brazen as to call
I will comment on the koi issue
The other inherent point I would like to make is why would
as for bringing attention to the non-profit, is that not how all charity’s claim to operate?
If it's such an easy money maker one wonders why more people don't do it
Valid point, but those that do pay beaucoup dollar for fish more often than not do pay attention to quality ime.
And not typically from my point of view, with most so-called charities, more often "non-profit" is attached as a prefix to the title or end all one-liner to any question about profit. But I think I see where you're going with this. On one hand it makes zero business sense to drive halfway across the country to rescue monster fish, and by that same hand it makes perfect business sense to seek support/donations from a community like MFK...
I'm gonna give
thebiggerthebetter
the benefit of the doubt here. His operations and love of fish are well documented here, guy puts an intense amount of work into it. If anything I'd say he deserves to make a bit of profit, but doubt there is any.