How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?

[jaws7777]

Sorry but I am not yet ready to bend down and worship the Center for Disease Control, or the Wuhan Lab for Novell Coronavirus Research.

Now, I am sure that a lot of fine folks work in both places.

But I don’t have a lot of faith in the people standing behind the people that run them.

Working Doctors, scientists, and engineers don’t run these places. Political appointees do.

yup.

"masks are not needed "
"must wear n95"
"any mask will work must wear them"
"should wear 2 masks (true story)"
"banning travel is xenophobia"
"hey we need to ban travel"

"So how is a fact... a fact when the people stating the facts change said facts weekly/monthly ?"

Simple: As we learned more about the virus from research and experience, that was reflected in guidance. That's how science works. It's a process of learning an discovery and not static.

"another fact is states that went into rigorous lock downs fared no better than states that hardly shut down."

Let's move this discussion away from US states and toward a group of states in Europe: "When compared to other Scandinavian countries with similar population profiles, Sweden has fared much worse and recorded a significantly higher number of deaths than its neighbours, all of which have had tougher restrictions during much of the pandemic."

View attachment 1464570

"It is hard to separate all the factors that might have caused this, but the absence of strict lockdown measures is likely to have contributed.
There's also no evidence that Sweden's economy did any better than its neighbours."


View attachment 1464571

"Although Sweden chose not to lock down early in the pandemic, with bars, restaurants and shops remaining open, increasingly tighter legally-binding restrictions have been imposed over the last five months.
These include a ban on public gatherings of eight or more people, limits on numbers in stores, gyms and on bookable public transport and a stop on serving food and drink after 20:00.
Daily reported deaths have been falling since early January, but the infection rate remains high."

Covid lockdown: Seven enduring claims fact-checked

A year after the first UK lockdown began, there are many who doubt the necessity of such restrictions.

www.bbc.com

fact checked link but who fact checks the fact checkers ?

 

[jaws7777]

If you think there isn't big money behind these vaccines you are blind. This isn't internet/youtube conspiracy theories btw. Global equity markets were hanging on by a thread prior to the vaccine. There will be no lockdowns regardless of what snazzy name they give the latest variation of the virus.

All the while we have this...
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6

 

[jaws7777]

Sorry but I am not yet ready to bend down and worship the Center for Disease Control, or the Wuhan Lab for Novell Coronavirus Research.

Now, I am sure that a lot of fine folks work in both places.

But I don’t have a lot of faith in the people standing behind the people that run them.

Working Doctors, scientists, and engineers don’t run these places. Political appointees do.

yup.

"masks are not needed "
"must wear n95"
"masks work must wear them"
"should wear 2 masks (true story)"
"banning travel is xenophobia"
"hey we need to ban travel"

yeah I'll take my chances

Data from 487,711 deaths. Age group was available for 487,675 (99%) deaths.

Age Group	Percentage of deaths	Count of deaths	Percent of US population
0-4 Years	<0.1	154	6
5-17 Years	0.1	308	16.3
18-29 Years	0.5	2,592	16.4
30-39 Years	1.2	5,981	13.5
40-49 Years	3	14,615	12.3
50-64 Years	15.2	74,078	19.2
65-74 Years	21.6	105,193	9.6
75-84 Years	27.4	133,636	4.9
85+ Years	31	151,118	2

Hello; Looked up some stats this morning. Not sure when the numbers were compiled but the above chart is the current one posted on a CDC information site. CDC COVID Data Tracker



The numbers reflect a similar breakdown as a few months ago. The numbers do not become significant until the age group of 50-64.

The last three groups together age 65 to 85 add up to 80% of the deaths.

The first four groups together age 0 to 49 adds up to 4.9% of the total deaths.

I am in the 65 -74 group. I got the vaccine because of the stats for old people. I also went and got an antibody test before getting the first shot which was negative. Had it been positive I would have skipped a vaccine shot.

I do not have children so my take on having a child under 17 vaccinated has no personal outcome. At 2/10ths of one percent the risk of death is very low. There are some reports of problems with possible connections to vaccines. Not yet clear to me how serious to take the reports, but as I understand it the CDC has issued a warning of some sort. I will look this up. Something to do with the heart is the latest I have heard. I also will look to see if any more has been decided about blood clots.



My personal take is if I was under 50 years of age and without co-morbidities, I might skip a vaccine. At 73 I figured the odds of problems with the vaccines might be less than an infection so I got the shots. Wish I had stopped at one shot since the second shot made me very ill for one day and I spent a second day resting up from being sick that first day. I guess I could have functioned the second day but had nothing pressing enough.

We also have to consider how accurate these statistics are. Many instances of inflated numbers.

 

[Ogertron3000]

I can see why everyone is cynical about all the advice given, I am too. Its constantly changing , i understand it would change as we learn more about the virus but it does make me wonder if what we are doing now will still be what we will be doing in a months time. All the differing opinions, misinformation and changing rules confuse and irritate anyone who has a tendency to question things. I remember the nonsense I was hearing when this fiasco first started, it was almost hysterical.

Our state government recently admitted it played up the danger to scare people and make them more compliant with the lockdown, again i understand they were pushing the worst case scenarioand no one knew how it would play out early 2020 but now most people think they are exagerating everytime theres a new rule or minor outbreak which doesnt help. This sort of panic inducing behaviour is just fuel for anyone who is against lockdowns/vaccines etc and who can blame them when their own government actually said it deliberately went out of their way to scare everyone into doing what they wanted.

I have always treated avoiding covid like avoiding the flu as its basically a variant of flu/cold I believe. Wash hands, avoid sick people or crowded indoor areas and wear the mask even though its annoying.

As for the vaccine, we only have 4.5% of the population vaccinated here, the govt is pushing hard for a bigger take up but its not really working. Personally im not in a hurry. Im mid 40s, relativelyfit and healthy and no other issues. We have very low case numbers here so I would prefer to wait a bit and see how it goes with people who do take it. Obviously any long term effects could take years but its interesting to see different reactions from guys i know who have had it. My job as a sales rep is classed as "high risk" by the authorities due to the travel and mixing with so many people on a daily basis so I will eventually get it but not in any rush.
Im guessing the vaccine is some kind of modified flu shot so its not like they made it entirely from scratch in such a short space of time but it does seem a bit rushed for my tastes, again I understand why in the current circumstances. I also think someone somewhere is getting very very rich from it too not as a conspiracy but just common sense that governments are willing to pay ridiculous money to vaccinate the populations and its common sense/human nature for a pharmaceutical companyto take advantage of it, I must say if i had the means to cash in on the crisis i would do it too.

 

[dogofwar]

There's a ton of misinformation out there. Some of it politically motivated. Some of it pushed from Russia and China (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...covid-19-vaccine-disinformation-idUSKBN2B0016). And some from just plain conspiracy mongering.

The bottom line - at least here in the US - is that our CDC recommends that "everyone 12 years of age and older is now eligible to get a COVID-19 vaccination."

The other bottom line is that - at least here in the US - nearly all deaths from COVID in the US are among the unvaccinated. And as the Delta variant of the virus takes hold here, we're going to see spikes of infections, hospitalizations and deaths, especially in the fall.

No way, no how I'd be a salesman coming into contact with lots of vaccinated and unvaccinated people without being vaccinated myself.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation focused on the approval process, safety and safety monitoring of the vaccines.

When the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) authorizes or approves a COVID-19 vaccine, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) will quickly hold a public meeting to review all available data about that vaccine... ACIP is an independent panel of medical and public health experts. From these data, ACIP will then vote on whether to recommend the vaccine. While vaccine supplies were limited, ACIP also voted on recommendations for who should be offered COVID-19 vaccine first. Here is how CDC is making these recommendations: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations-process.html

I can see why everyone is cynical about all the advice given, I am too. Its constantly changing , i understand it would change as we learn more about the virus but it does make me wonder if what we are doing now will still be what we will be doing in a months time. All the differing opinions, misinformation and changing rules confuse and irritate anyone who has a tendency to question things. I remember the nonsense I was hearing when this fiasco first started, it was almost hysterical.

Our state government recently admitted it played up the danger to scare people and make them more compliant with the lockdown, again i understand they were pushing the worst case scenarioand no one knew how it would play out early 2020 but now most people think they are exagerating everytime theres a new rule or minor outbreak which doesnt help. This sort of panic inducing behaviour is just fuel for anyone who is against lockdowns/vaccines etc and who can blame them when their own government actually said it deliberately went out of their way to scare everyone into doing what they wanted.

I have always treated avoiding covid like avoiding the flu as its basically a variant of flu/cold I believe. Wash hands, avoid sick people or crowded indoor areas and wear the mask even though its annoying.

As for the vaccine, we only have 4.5% of the population vaccinated here, the govt is pushing hard for a bigger take up but its not really working. Personally im not in a hurry. Im mid 40s, relativelyfit and healthy and no other issues. We have very low case numbers here so I would prefer to wait a bit and see how it goes with people who do take it. Obviously any long term effects could take years but its interesting to see different reactions from guys i know who have had it. My job as a sales rep is classed as "high risk" by the authorities due to the travel and mixing with so many people on a daily basis so I will eventually get it but not in any rush.
Im guessing the vaccine is some kind of modified flu shot so its not like they made it entirely from scratch in such a short space of time but it does seem a bit rushed for my tastes, again I understand why in the current circumstances. I also think someone somewhere is getting very very rich from it too not as a conspiracy but just common sense that governments are willing to pay ridiculous money to vaccinate the populations and its common sense/human nature for a pharmaceutical companyto take advantage of it, I must say if i had the means to cash in on the crisis i would do it too.

 

[skjl47]

Again, what is your point?

Because someone who invented a technology that's now being used in a vaccine doesn't think that "there isn't enough data about the risks for <the 18-22 age bracket>" that his opinion should overrule the experts who are actually on the CDC's advisory group... and that people in that age group "should not be forced to get the vaccine"... which, of course, they're not?!

That Malone pioneered 'in-vitro RNA transfection' and also 'in-vivo RNA transfection' in 1987 and 1988... on frog embryos and mice" does not make him an epidemiologist or expert in coronaviruses.

Ironically, he's claiming that "the government is not being transparent about the risks' of the COVID-19 vaccine" after YouTube - which isn't the government - deleted a video where he discussed potential risks for young adults and teens, presumably because it presented misinformation and violated YouTube's terms of service.

Also ironically, he's says that "I don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in that cohort"... and that "the risk-benefit analysis is not being done' literally on the same day that "The COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Technical (VaST) Work Group <of the CDC Avisory Committee> discussed nearly 500 reports of the heart inflammation, known as myocarditis, in vaccinated adults under age 30" (i.e. doing the risk benefit analysis of what is being done.)

Malone might call the vaccines "experimental" but they're not. They're approved by the FDA under emergency use authorization, which requires the same evidence as traditional authorization. Perhaps he was being hyperbolic because he was on a cable TV news show known for spreading, among other falsehoods, vaccine misinformation.

Hello; For what it is worth,, I do get your points. I do not agree with them in this post of yours. Mr. Malone invented the process being used to make the new type of vaccines. When it comes to the vaccines created by the process he invented I do not have the gall to dismiss his opinion, as you so easily have. He may not be an expert CDC sort which you favor. I find it to be of interest that the pattern fits even with this person. He, the inventor of the process, has an opinion about the vaccines created using his invention you do not favor, so his opinion must be dismissed by your standard.

On another point. Some universities are indeed trying to make college age students be vaccinated before allowing them back onto the campus. I guess this is not exactly "force", but it is the kissing cousin of force. There are other examples of such attempts.

I imagine most of us have heard of the censorship on web sites by now. Folks on this forum I converse with do know. The big social web platforms do delete content using their own set of rules. I will assume you do not consider it censorship since it is not a government entity. Interesting take and a worthy topic for discussion. Perhaps in a thread of it's own. Start a new thread.

On the risk benefit analysis point you make. His statement came out on the same day as the VaST statement. Here is a way this can happen. As I type this post the red icon showed up indicating a new post in this thread. I do not know what is in that new post as it is happening at the same time I am typing. So he may not have been aware of the VaST action.

Last thing. This fellow invented the process being used to make a new sort of vaccine. I get you do not think they are experimental, but the man who made them possible does.

 

[skjl47]

If you think there isn't big money behind these vaccines you are blind.

I also think someone somewhere is getting very very rich from it too not as a conspiracy but just common sense that governments are willing to pay ridiculous money to vaccinate the populations and its common sense/human nature for a pharmaceutical companyto take advantage of it, I must say if i had the means to cash in on the crisis i would do it too.

Hello; In the USA the vaccine shots are "free" to the people but I am confident the companies making the vaccines are being paid. It would be interesting to know how the payout works. Is it a lump sum to make the vaccines or is it a payout per each shot administered? I am fairly confident the government set it up so the companies could start making vaccines at an earlier date than would be normal. My guess is the government did foot the early start up bills so as to get a vaccine soonest. (record time I think thanks to quick action by the administration in this.) If anyone knows how the payout for the vaccines works, such would be of interest.

 

[skjl47]

This sort of panic inducing behaviour is just fuel for anyone who is against lockdowns/vaccines etc and who can blame them when their own government actually said it deliberately went out of their way to scare everyone into doing what they wanted.

Hello; I have to agree with you on this. A government using fear to induce behavior does not get my confidence.

 

[dogofwar]

Maybe the FDA should turn over the vaccine approval process to the guy who invented the special glass vials for the COVID vaccine (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55808640)... He and Malone could decide for us all, right?!

Malone should publish - and not talk without backing data on YouTube and a cable talk show - if he really wants to contribute. But he's not.

Seriously, though, I think that many of the folks criticizing the CDC and FDA for lack of transparency, just don't know about or understand the process by which the COVID vaccines are tested, approved and monitored. Or they're just looking for a premise to criticize and create doubt. Here's a link if folks really want to understand how things work: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

Hello; For what it is worth,, I do get your points. I do not agree with them in this post of yours. Mr. Malone invented the process being used to make the new type of vaccines. When it comes to the vaccines created by the process he invented I do not have the gall to dismiss his opinion, as you so easily have. He may not be an expert CDC sort which you favor. I find it to be of interest that the pattern fits even with this person. He, the inventor of the process, has an opinion about the vaccines created using his invention you do not favor, so his opinion must be dismissed by your standard.

On another point. Some universities are indeed trying to make college age students be vaccinated before allowing them back onto the campus. I guess this is not exactly "force", but it is the kissing cousin of force. There are other examples of such attempts.

I imagine most of us have heard of the censorship on web sites by now. Folks on this forum I converse with do know. The big social web platforms do delete content using their own set of rules. I will assume you do not consider it censorship since it is not a government entity. Interesting take and a worthy topic for discussion. Perhaps in a thread of it's own. Start a new thread.

On the risk benefit analysis point you make. His statement came out on the same day as the VaST statement. Here is a way this can happen. As I type this post the red icon showed up indicating a new post in this thread. I do not know what is in that new post as it is happening at the same time I am typing. So he may not have been aware of the VaST action.

Last thing. This fellow invented the process being used to make a new sort of vaccine. I get you do not think they are experimental, but the man who made them possible does.

 

[skjl47]

If you think there isn't big money behind these vaccines you are blind. This isn't internet/youtube conspiracy theories btw. Global equity markets were hanging on by a thread prior to the vaccine. There will be no lockdowns regardless of what snazzy name they give the latest variation of the virus.

All the while we have this...
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6

Hello; Thanks for the link. Interesting read.