How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?

[dogofwar]

Well, my personal level of tolerance for people spreading misinformation about COVID is pretty darn low (clearly).

By "collective" I meant the people on MFK. Or in society in general.

I hear a lot of people complain about all of the BS that they hear. Fewer people speak out about it. I could give two shirts if COVID only affected those who chose to live their lives based on misinformation. But it doesn't. Our country *collectively* has lost over 600,000 souls as a result of COVID. Way more than we should have, according to the people who should have spoken out when they saw people spreading misinformation.

Well we locked up people in prison camps just for being Japanese so I say any “collective” level of tolerance is highly suspect in every case. In fact it is a manipulated number and rarely subject to the truth.

Anyhow, we are not a collective with a collective consciousness or a collective level of anything. It’s a dog-eat-dog world dude.

We are not the freaking Borg!

The fact that civilization conceals this fact under a thin patina of formalized civility does nothing to restrain it. Take 90% of the toilet paper out of Walmart, and you will see how much collective consciousness rules.

People telling you to take the vaccine for your own health and the health of all humanity would often have enough concern for your personal health to put you in jail with a bunch of Covid cases and murderers, if you disagree.

 

[dogofwar]

"Medications which went thru the full testing routines and were certified for use by the FDA, not just with an emergency use allowance as the vaccines currently have. There is a reason the vaccines are still under emergency use rules. "

Again - and for like the 10th time - you're spreading misinformation about what FDA Emergency Use Authorization means (and doesn't mean).

"In a public health emergency, manufacturing and approval of vaccines can be streamlined through an Emergency Use Authorization or EUA. An EUA does not affect vaccine safety, because it does not impact development, such as research, clinical studies and the studying of side effects and adverse reactions. Instead, it speeds up manufacturing and administrative processes."

So under an EUA, there is exactly the same three phases of testing as in traditional FDA authorization. EUA is not a lesser process in terms of rigor or quality of testing or approval. It just allows production to begin earlier so that the vaccine is available earlier (which is exactly what we need during a pandemic).

When you characterize FDA EUA approved vaccines as less safe or tested or otherwise inferior to ones that go through traditional FDA approval, you're spreading misinformation.

Here's a great primer on the processes.

What's the Difference Between FDA Emergency Use Authorization and FDA Approval? - UNC Health Covid-19 Vaccine Hub

An overview of Emergency Use Authorization and how it differs from normal vaccine approval.

vaccine.unchealthcare.org

 

[skjl47]

When you characterize FDA EUA approved vaccines as less safe or tested or otherwise inferior to ones that go through traditional FDA approval, you're spreading misinformation.

Hello; First is the spin you put on my comment is misleading. I did not characterize the vaccines as less safe nor did I characterize them as inferior. Below is my full comment. You are trying to twist what I wrote. You also left off some of the full statement.

In past posts I have characterized my taking a vaccine, which I did , as a gamble. A gamble in the same sort of sense that a new medication or vaccine may have unexpected side effects over time.
I do get the vaccines underwent lots of testing. What did not and could not happen was to give the process the normal amount of time other such vaccines and medications have had. It was an emergency use situation. The companies started making the actual vaccine while the trials were going on instead of after approval. The companies were also paid up front by the government.
There is also a level of immunity from liability for the vaccine companies, doctors and folks who give the shots. I think we went over this liability business many pages back.
You keep trying to label my comments as misinformation. I get the tactic. Belittle my comments in the hope that such will cast doubt. It is not only my comments which get the treatment of course, others get the same treatment.

That I figure the vaccines are some degree of a gamble is not misinformation, but a way of looking at things realistically. Too many examples of problems with medications have shown up. Medications which went thru the full testing routines and were certified for use by the FDA, not just with an emergency use allowance as the vaccines currently have. There is a reason the vaccines are still under emergency use rules.

 

[jjohnwm]

Well, my personal level of tolerance for people spreading misinformation about COVID is pretty darn low (clearly).

By "collective" I meant the people on MFK. Or in society in general.

I hear a lot of people complain about all of the BS that they hear. Fewer people speak out about it. I could give two shirts if COVID only affected those who chose to live their lives based on misinformation. But it doesn't. Our country *collectively* has lost over 600,000 souls as a result of COVID. Way more than we should have, according to the people who should have spoken out when they saw people spreading misinformation.

Dang it...I keep saying I'm done here, and then someone drops another turd of data into the bowl, hits the "flush" button and I get sucked back into the whirling vortex of...well, you know. Now, I hasten to add that I don't ignore the threat posed by this virus, and I acknowledge that many people have been lost because of it...but...

An acquaintance of mine at work recently lost a brother-in-law, ostensibly to Covid, at a relatively young 46 years of age. The BIL was diagnosed as positive for Covid and was supposedly self-isolating at home, feeling just a bit under the weather but otherwise strong. After a couple days of supposed isolation, he was involved in a multi-vehicle collision near his home and was one of three victims, in several vehicles, who succumbed to their injuries. My acquaintance found it funny that when his sister (i.e. the wife of the deceased) saw the death certificate, she found that Covid-19 was listed as a cause of death. I find that to be disturbing but far from funny.

I am aware that I earlier downplayed the significance of a single case wherein a youngster developed complications as a result of receiving a Covid vaccination. I stated that one isolated instance is no cause for major concern...and I still believe that. I realize that this unrelated incident of a man dying in a car crash and having the death attributed to Covid can be viewed the same way, i.e. a fluke or an error. But...how can we know? It was a coincidence that this came to light the way it did. Is every death of an individual who is positive for the virus being attributed to the virus, regardless of how they die?

The cynic in me wonders if the deceased man was determined to be the at-fault driver...and if so, were the other two fatalities also attributed to Covid. Hmmm...

 

[dogofwar]

So do you accept that the FDA EUA process provides the same testing and safety approval as the traditional process... but just does it in less time because the vaccine needs to be available sooner in a pandemic? It really doesn't matter if you accept it. Because it's true.

The whole point of the EUA process is to safely and rapidly bring needed vaccines to market during a pandemic. The testing processes are identical. As are the safety profiles of the vaccines that are approved.

It is correct that the manufacturers begin to make the virus prior to the final stage of testing in the EUA process. That represents risk for the manufacturer and NOT the government or the people, as the CDC and the FDA conduct the same approval / disapproval process as with regular authorization.... and all vaccines that don't pass don't get approved or given to people.

It would make zero sense for the FDA to follow a traditional authorization process during a pandemic. Can you imagine the criticism of delaying manufacturing a needed vaccine for no reason other than to insulate themselves from baseless criticism and misrepresentation? Actually, those set on misinformation would just find another line...

Hello; First is the spin you put on my comment is misleading. I did not characterize the vaccines as less safe nor did I characterize them as inferior. Below is my full comment. You are trying to twist what I wrote. You also left off some of the full statement.

In past posts I have characterized my taking a vaccine, which I did , as a gamble. A gamble in the same sort of sense that a new medication or vaccine may have unexpected side effects over time.
I do get the vaccines underwent lots of testing. What did not and could not happen was to give the process the normal amount of time other such vaccines and medications have had. It was an emergency use situation. The companies started making the actual vaccine while the trials were going on instead of after approval. The companies were also paid up front by the government.
There is also a level of immunity from liability for the vaccine companies, doctors and folks who give the shots. I think we went over this liability business many pages back.
You keep trying to label my comments as misinformation. I get the tactic. Belittle my comments in the hope that such will cast doubt. It is not only my comments which get the treatment of course, others get the same treatment.

 

[dogofwar]

Hard to know. There are guidelines, probably by province in Canada, for death determination from COVID. Here's BC's: "COVID-19 should be recorded on the medical certificate of cause of death for all decedents where the disease caused, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death."

Guidance for certifying COVID-19 deaths | College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC

www.cpsbc.ca

Lots and lots of "excess deaths" in the US (and I'd assume elsewhere) likely associated with COVID have been undercounted:
"New Study Estimates More Than 900,000 People Have Died Of COVID-19 In U.S." https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...n-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

Dang it...I keep saying I'm done here, and then someone drops another turd of data into the bowl, hits the "flush" button and I get sucked back into the whirling vortex of...well, you know. Now, I hasten to add that I don't ignore the threat posed by this virus, and I acknowledge that many people have been lost because of it...but...

An acquaintance of mine at work recently lost a brother-in-law, ostensibly to Covid, at a relatively young 46 years of age. The BIL was diagnosed as positive for Covid and was supposedly self-isolating at home, feeling just a bit under the weather but otherwise strong. After a couple days of supposed isolation, he was involved in a multi-vehicle collision near his home and was one of three victims, in several vehicles, who succumbed to their injuries. My acquaintance found it funny that when his sister (i.e. the wife of the deceased) saw the death certificate, she found that Covid-19 was listed as a cause of death. I find that to be disturbing but far from funny.

I am aware that I earlier downplayed the significance of a single case wherein a youngster developed complications as a result of receiving a Covid vaccination. I stated that one isolated instance is no cause for major concern...and I still believe that. I realize that this unrelated incident of a man dying in a car crash and having the death attributed to Covid can be viewed the same way, i.e. a fluke or an error. But...how can we know? It was a coincidence that this came to light the way it did. Is every death of an individual who is positive for the virus being attributed to the virus, regardless of how they die?

The cynic in me wonders if the deceased man was determined to be the at-fault driver...and if so, were the other two fatalities also attributed to Covid. Hmmm...

 

[Ulu]

Yep. Tens of thousands of years of developing civilization...maybe a week or two without food, a day or two without water, and pffffft!...so much for society.

Well if you’re an Aquarist yup tend to keep lots of water on hand, so that’s a good reason to raise fish in the desert.

 

[Ulu]

I remember that Mark twain complained about how there were “lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

Our official death toll was 300,000 but then somehow 600,000? . . . and now maybe it’s 900,000??

I remember reading in the Sunday MSNBC feed:

How do you know if you have or have had Covid?

It was followed by a list and explanations of over 90 symptoms.

I did not miss speak.
Niner zero symptoms.

Now I read that you can put Covid on the death certificate even if you can “assume” it was Covid.

Covid appears to be the disease with almost every single symptom a human could possibly have, so assuming that someone died of Covid should be an easy matter now.

Remember the movie demolition man where, in the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bell?

Well, In the New World Future, everyone who dies will officially die of Covid, Until the politically attractive death toll is recorded.

Really, It’s like the boy who cried Wolf; and if
The news tomorrow says it’s 1 million people, how can you believe it?

 

[dogofwar]

As the article I posted clearly states, the estimated number of deaths from COVID is higher than the official deaths. So no, the "official deaths" did not increase:

A new study estimates that the number of people who have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. is more than 900,000, a number 57% higher than official figures.

So how did they arrive at these numbers?

The analysis comes from researchers at the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, who looked at excess mortality from March 2020 through May 3, 2021, compared it with what would be expected in a typical nonpandemic year, then adjusted those figures to account for a handful of other pandemic-related factors.

The final count only estimates deaths "caused directly by the SARS-CoV-2 virus," according to the study's authors. SARS-CoV-2 is the virus that causes COVID-19.

Here's a link to the analysis and its methods, if you'd like to learn more: http://www.healthdata.org/special-a...covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths

But the bottom line is that in the US and worldwide, there is strong evidence that we've far under-counted the deadly impact of this pandemic.

I remember that Mark twain complained about how there were “lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

Our official death toll was 300,000 but then somehow 600,000? . . . and now maybe it’s 900,000??

I remember reading in the Sunday MSNBC feed:

How do you know if you have or have had Covid?

It was followed by a list and explanations of over 90 symptoms.

I did not miss speak.
Niner zero symptoms.

Now I read that you can put Covid on the death certificate even if you can “assume” it was Covid.

Covid appears to be the disease with almost every single symptom a human could possibly have, so assuming that someone died of Covid should be an easy matter now.

Remember the movie demolition man where, in the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bell?

Well, In the New World Future, everyone who dies will officially die of Covid, Until the politically attractive death toll is recorded.

Really, It’s like the boy who cried Wolf; and if
The news tomorrow says it’s 1 million people, how can you believe it?

 

[skjl47]

So how did they arrive at these numbers?

The analysis comes from researchers at the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, who looked at excess mortality from March 2020 through May 3, 2021, compared it with what would be expected in a typical nonpandemic year, then adjusted those figures to account for a handful of other pandemic-related factors.

Hello; This seems wrong on the face of it. I get the concept. Say the average/normal number of deaths was 1,000,000 for a time period and during a matching time period the number of deaths was 1,500,000. They want to call dibs on the excess deaths and count them in the tally of their choice.

However there was much more than just the virus going on during that time frame. There were lots of home improvement jobs going on as is reflected in lumber prices. I am just getting two fingers back into action due to mishaps. I am betting some folks may have died doing risky jobs around the house.

Then there are the folks who had medical issues and skipped appointments and procedures during the pandemic. Likely some number of them died than may have lived if things had been normal.

I have heard about suicide numbers going up during the lockdowns. In a similar vein there were more domestic abuse cases reported i think. In my area there have been some things involving small children.

I also hear about about more traffic accidents.

I think we had a side discussion on the dying with Covid19 vs. dying from covid19 months ago. If I have a mild case of covid19 and fall off a ladder doing a home improvement job, then how will I be counted. I had covid19 but was feeling good enough to do some work. My guess is I will be counted as a covid19 death. Same as if I am in a car wreck and so on.

Now I read that you can put Covid on the death certificate even if you can “assume” it was Covid.

Hello; I have read the very same thing. This was walked back a bit in the media for a time. There were articles claiming the deaths will be investigated at some future time and revised. I do not know how that went as it is not in the news any more.