Siamese Tiger

[Midwater]

Wow, look at that advert. I don't believe a word of it. Looks good their facebook page though, with a few documents in Thai. I suppose if you really wish for something too much, you could believe it. And you do not need AI either.

They would not dare advertise INSIDE Thailand!

 

[dr exum]

Wow, look at that advert. I don't believe a word of it. Looks good their facebook page though, with a few documents in Thai. I suppose if you really wish for something too much, you could believe it. And you do not need AI either.

They would not dare advertise INSIDE Thailand!

your saying the 6.5k people following this guy are made up accounts to fleece people for $3000 here and there...

bro.... i dunno, i can't with you.... are you physically in Thailand or just been there and deemed yourself an expert? what are your credentials?

 

[fugupuff]

they've been "bred" in a secret place in Thailand and have been exported for some time now. the super A grade ones are sold direct to China. They are not fake or Selected indo three bar datnoids. I've been keeping fish and selling datnoids for over 25 years.

 

[Midwater]

they've been "bred" in a secret place in Thailand and have been exported for some time now. the super A grade ones are sold direct to China. They are not fake or Selected indo three bar datnoids. I've been keeping fish and selling datnoids for over 25 years.

Yes highly secret. That contradicts the 'ministry of fisheries' and 'cites' stuff.

your saying the 6.5k people following this guy are made up accounts to fleece people for $3000 here and there...
bro.... i dunno, i can't with you.... are you physically in Thailand or just been there and deemed yourself an expert? what are your credentials?

I don't know what accounts are made up. But as well as a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Thailand' faceook page, there is also a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Malaysia' and a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Singapore' page. And they are made up.

I am physically in Thailand. I have been here for thirty plus years. I have been to the waterways where they collect the NTT and AT. ST were extinct here before I started collecting. I used to know all the fish traders in JJ, including the Japanese trader who began the export of ST to Japan. He described to me how it was done, even how they were physically packed. I used to see the fresh batches of small ST come in from Cambodia, and I could take my pick.

I go to the Ministry of Fisheries quite often, in the provinces, to buy fish, (eight inch mahseer for less than a dollar). They would have a good laugh.

There is a terrific ornamental fish community here. People love dats, and many IT are imported. If ST were available, then Thailand would be the primary market.

But I am afraid they are not. Pulcher is extinct.

I do realize that there is this apparent industry in selling and reselling fish as ST. If people are willing to spend $3,000 as you say, what do you expect.

Really, not one of these fish can speak a word of Thai.

 

[dr exum]

they've been "bred" in a secret place in Thailand and have been exported for some time now. the super A grade ones are sold direct to China. They are not fake or Selected indo three bar datnoids. I've been keeping fish and selling datnoids for over 25 years.

thanks wes!

 

[fugupuff]

Yes highly secret. That contradicts the 'ministry of fisheries' and 'cites' stuff.



I don't know what accounts are made up. But as well as a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Thailand' faceook page, there is also a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Malaysia' and a 'Siam Tigerfish Legend Singapore' page. And they are made up.

I am physically in Thailand. I have been here for thirty plus years. I have been to the waterways where they collect the NTT and AT. ST were extinct here before I started collecting. I used to know all the fish traders in JJ, including the Japanese trader who began the export of ST to Japan. He described to me how it was done, even how they were physically packed. I used to see the fresh batches of small ST come in from Cambodia, and I could take my pick.

I go to the Ministry of Fisheries quite often, in the provinces, to buy fish, (eight inch mahseer for less than a dollar). They would have a good laugh.

There is a terrific ornamental fish community here. People love dats, and many IT are imported. If ST were available, then Thailand would be the primary market.

But I am afraid they are not. Pulcher is extinct.

I do realize that there is this apparent industry in selling and reselling fish as ST. If people are willing to spend $3,000 as you say, what do you expect.

Really, not one of these fish can speak a word of Thai.

I respect the fact that you live in Thailand and that you've been to many fish places. I've been to Thailand many times, to JJ, I also export fish all around the world. I use to buy pulcher in taiwan for $150 each at 12", as they got too big and nobody wanted them. When Cambodian and Vietnam dats came out, their bars were not perfect, and I sold them for $60 each.

I agree that Datnoides pulcher in the wild are extinct. I've actually visited several famous breeders in the world that tried to breed them and were unsuccessful. That was about 8 years ago, so now most of those fish are now mostly all dead as well. There are however perfect yellow datnoids with wide bars, and sweeping tail bands being exported starting around 8 years ago. Initially they were just 2" fish. There have been several video documentaries of successful breeding, but its been kept a secret to the public for financial reasons. I have no part of it.

As these past few years have gone by, I've seen 5", to 12" to 15" perfect pulchers showing up again, mainly in China. So either they found a pocket of the river where they're breeding or they've successfully bred them. You and I both know that money can buy your way through anything. Yes, all the certificates and CITES is all just for show. as this fish is not even listed on CITES at all. However I've seen these fish with my own eyes over these past decade or so and they're the real deal. The reason you don't see them in Thailand is probably because its illegal to sell this fish there. How they're getting out I'm guessing is they've bought their way out.

 

[Midwater]

As these past few years have gone by, I've seen 5", to 12" to 15" perfect pulchers showing up again, mainly in China. So either they found a pocket of the river where they're breeding or they've successfully bred them. You and I both know that money can buy your way through anything. Yes, all the certificates and CITES is all just for show. as this fish is not even listed on CITES at all. However I've seen these fish with my own eyes over these past decade or so and they're the real deal. The reason you don't see them in Thailand is probably because its illegal to sell this fish there. How they're getting out I'm guessing is they've bought their way out.

Thank you for your measured reply.

How do you know that the dats that you have seen in China are Pulcher? You cannot really tell.

It is/was not illegal to sell Pulcher in Thailand, it was illegal to export them.

'secret to the public' and 'pocket of the river where they're breeding'
I think you are just grasping at straws. Hoping and loving. In good faith.

But really, there is not one fish you can see, buy or sell, whatever it looks like, that you know is a Pulcher.

And I would also suggest that as a vendor, and as a respected member of the fish community, that you reconsider your promotion of fish that you deem ST.

 

[fugupuff]

without doing actual DNA testing there is no way to tell for sure.

the consensus is that datnoides pulcher have the sweeping tail band, unlike the ones from Borneo or Sumatra with the extra band. Maybe I can or other members will share pictures of all the so called "pulcher" that has been circulating in Asia for this past 10 years or so. And even if you think it may be "fake" or not real, the color, bars, and shape matches that one that we all desire. If it looks like a porsche, drives like one, then that's what people want. It could be done by Ruff, Guntherwurks, RWB, or Singer. It's still a porsche.

 

[Midwater]

If it looks like a porsche, drives like one, then that's what people want. It could be done by Ruff, Guntherwurks, RWB, or Singer. It's still a porsche.

Wow! That's a point of view.

 

[dnz03dw]

Nobody directly stated that any of them were intentionally attempting to scam aquarists. Rod trusts his suppliers to provide him with properly-labeled fish, rather than verifying the exact species himself- which is understandable, considering the sheer number of fish he deals with. Wes himself has said that despite his extensive experience importing and selling rare fish, there are others that know considerably more than him. Midwater stated that the importer may have simply trusted their exporter without putting much thought into the legitimacy of the fish.
The argument in regards to the existence of STs is not a new one, and usually ends in speculation and odd ideas. But I do trust Midwater to know what he's talking about, as he's one of the most knowledgeable people on here when it comes to datnoids.

I wouldn’t give credit to someone who says these datnoid are coming from indo just for thailand to resell them

this Statement above is the funniest. If you’re claiming they are ITs then why hasn’t indo exporter have been selling to the importers? To japan? To China? Why thailand when they already know japan and China is the biggest market?