Vegan /vegetarian fish food

[Midwater]

This geezer can get a bit political, but apart from that, I think he has got it right on the button.

Raw Meaty Bones

Original raw meaty bones information describing optimum raw food diet for pet dogs, cats and ferrets and the facets of the junk pet-food fraud: diet induced cruelty, illhealth and suffering of dogs, cats and ferrets, counterfeit science, mass poisoning of pets, officialcorruption, veterinary...

www.rawmeatybones.com

Not actually a fish thing, but you can extrapolate the philosophy.

 

[Trouser Cough]

You can check on the web for some vegan athletes and body builders and see for yourselves.

That's not the way it works. Nobody is going to look for examples to suit your unusual perspective; you're supposed to provide those. You haven't because objective examples are like hen's teeth. To support everyone else's perspective though there are many examples and to carry that a step beyond the most common protien foods consumed by strength competitors are milk, eggs and meat.

Could someone attempt to participate w/ a vegan diet? Probably. They'd be a loser but society often attempts to put a round peg in a square hole.

 

[jjohnwm]

I've read a bit about vegetarianism and vegan diets...or "lifestyles" as their proponents seem to enjoy describing them...mostly as a result of interesting lunchroom conversations with co-workers. There are a very few sources that claim this is an easy and straightforward route to health and happiness, but the vast majority of information includes warnings and provisos regarding the need for a cocktail of supplements to offset the insufficient supply of many vitamins and nutrients. S Savethemall , you stated that "This is not a black and white thing. There are tons of ways to recieve nutrients.. tons of resources, and tons of options" and also that you would only consider forcing this regimen on your pets if you could find evidence that it wouldn't harm them.

Maybe there are "tons" of ways to obtain nutrition...but there is only one natural way, and that is to eat a healthy diet that contains what is needed, i.e. a "balanced" diet. IMHO, that is indeed black-and-white. If you need to add a handful of pills and supplements to a diet because the body needs them and does not derive them from that diet...then that's a lousy diet. A proper balanced diet requires no supplementation.

There is one animal species that has its dietary needs more thoroughly studied and understood than any other: Homo sapiens. It may indeed be fairly easy to answer those needs by supplementation, but a vegan diet without those additives is unhealthy...it's a statement, a moral stance, a line drawn in the ethical sand, an invitation to "look at how enlightened I am!"...but it's not a balanced healthy diet for Homo sapiens. You allude in your comments to how harmful the production of food is to the environment, how you want to sidestep that by finding an alternative balanced diet. It won't work; there are balanced diets...and there are alternatives that include supplements...they are mutually exclusive. If a diet requires supplementation, then it is, by definition, not a balanced diet.

In comparison to human dietary needs, the needs of aquarium fish are a black hole of mystery. Quality commercial foods draw on the information that is available and use formulations that answer the need. They include animal protein because that's the surest way to be sure the diet is complete, and it is likely also the most economical. The cans of fish food do not have a moral philosophy attached to them; they are intended to nourish the fish, and that's it. When the fish eat...they aren't navel-gazing or attempting to achieve some moral high ground; they are simply eating.

When you attempt to force your moral stance on the nutrition of these animals, you are being disingenuous. If you really worried about their welfare, you would feed them what evolution has created them to eat. If you are unwilling to do so, then frankly euthanization would be more humane than experimenting on them and thinking you are doing good.

I do want to clarify that my comment regarding your grammar and English was not meant in any way as a slight. I was responding to the bot question raised by esoxlucius and nothing more. I respect anyone who can communicate in multiple languages.

 

[RD.]

Oh and thank you RD for helping with this article, do you perhaps have a link for it?

Nutrient Requirements of Fish and Shrimp | The National Academies Press


I think that will clear things up for you with regards to most tropical fish that are kept in captivity. The only reason that feed manufacturers seek alternative raw ingredient choices, is in the pursuit of cost savings. Fish are not humans, or dogs, they have evolved to consume specific nutrients, and most of those nutrients are best served via animal sources, from the waters where they come from. Not soy, not corn, and not peas. While terrestrial grains etc can be utilized in feed designed for fish, they can only be utilized in limited quantity before growth, overall health, and longevity become compromised. At this point the research is 125+ years and ongoing, with the same net results. Perhaps the 2011 version will reverse their previous findings, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[Sinister-Kisses]

You can check on the web for some vegan athletes and body builders and see for yourselves.

Last I checked, humans aren't fish, and vise-versa. So telling us to go look for vegan athletes as an argument to your BS theory about making fish consume a vegan diet is just that, BS.

Dogs are carnivores with omnivore tendencies. They still need the required animal protein they have evolved to, well REQUIRE, for long term health and happiness. SURVIVING is not THRIVING.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I did a little research looking for anything close to science and I stumbled onto veterinariadigital.com. They claim to be the Magazine of veterinary information, medicine and zootechnics, specialized in the poultry, pig, ruminant and aquaculture sectors Here is an article on just the topic at hand.


Physiological differences in digestion between carnivorous fishes and omnivorous fishes

Dr. José Luis Rodríguez - 7/11/2022

Fishes, like other animal species, have intraspecies morphological and physiological diversity, one of which is digestive. In nature there are fishes that are carnivorous, omnivorous, herbivorous, detritivorous and planktivorous, with a digestive tract adapted to their dietary requirements.

In the case of carnivorous fishes their digestive tract is short with a large stomach designed to contain even whole fishes. While the digestive tract of omnivorous fish is larger, and their teeth and digestive tract have some of the traits of both carnivores and herbivores. The stomach is somewhat shorter in omnivores with a primary carnivorous diet, and a more reduced stomach in omnivores with a primary herbivorous diet. Although omnivores can eat plant matter, they cannot digest some types of grains and plants (Figure 1).

Omnivorous fishes are the easiest of all fish to feed, as they eat flake foods as well as live foods, and generally a wide variety of feeds. For that reason, omnivores are an excellent choice for the aquaculture industry.

Read the entire article here https://www.veterinariadigital.com/...een-carnivorous-fishes-and-omnivorous-fishes/

 

[Savethemall]

Last I checked, humans aren't fish, and vise-versa. So telling us to go look for vegan athletes as an argument to your BS theory about making fish consume a vegan diet is just that, BS.

Dogs are carnivores with omnivore tendencies. They still need the required animal protein they have evolved to, well REQUIRE, for long term health and happiness. SURVIVING is not THRIVING.

Can we please talk a bit nicer? You can disagree with me all you want but calling my theory or opinions Bullshit is kinda unpleasant..

 

[Hybridfish7]

Can we please talk a bit nicer? You can disagree with me all you want but calling my theory or opinions Bullshit is kinda unpleasant..

Well that's because it is

 

[Trouser Cough]

Can we please talk a bit nicer? You can disagree with me all you want but calling my theory or opinions Bullshit is kinda unpleasant..

Yours is not a theory. You're hoping to find others of like mind in order to justify and defend the maltreatment of animals in your care. Among clear thinkers you are unlikely to find wide acceptance... or in this instance, any. I personally would prefer to hear strong language than to listen to someone blather on about how they plan to intentionally undernourish a pet and are looking for others that enjoy the same perversion.

Your premise is irritating and you've made no progress. I would be willing to gamble that 100% of whatever else you have to say would not meet my minimum standard. Welcome to my ignore list. Population: you.

 

[Savethemall]

I've read a bit about vegetarianism and vegan diets...or "lifestyles" as their proponents seem to enjoy describing them...mostly as a result of interesting lunchroom conversations with co-workers. There are a very few sources that claim this is an easy and straightforward route to health and happiness, but the vast majority of information includes warnings and provisos regarding the need for a cocktail of supplements to offset the insufficient supply of many vitamins and nutrients. S Savethemall , you stated that "This is not a black and white thing. There are tons of ways to recieve nutrients.. tons of resources, and tons of options" and also that you would only consider forcing this regimen on your pets if you could find evidence that it wouldn't harm them.

Maybe there are "tons" of ways to obtain nutrition...but there is only one natural way, and that is to eat a healthy diet that contains what is needed, i.e. a "balanced" diet. IMHO, that is indeed black-and-white. If you need to add a handful of pills and supplements to a diet because the body needs them and does not derive them from that diet...then that's a lousy diet. A proper balanced diet requires no supplementation.

There is one animal species that has its dietary needs more thoroughly studied and understood than any other: Homo sapiens. It may indeed be fairly easy to answer those needs by supplementation, but a vegan diet without those additives is unhealthy...it's a statement, a moral stance, a line drawn in the ethical sand, an invitation to "look at how enlightened I am!"...but it's not a balanced healthy diet for Homo sapiens. You allude in your comments to how harmful the production of food is to the environment, how you want to sidestep that by finding an alternative balanced diet. It won't work; there are balanced diets...and there are alternatives that include supplements...they are mutually exclusive. If a diet requires supplementation, then it is, by definition, not a balanced diet.

In comparison to human dietary needs, the needs of aquarium fish are a black hole of mystery. Quality commercial foods draw on the information that is available and use formulations that answer the need. They include animal protein because that's the surest way to be sure the diet is complete, and it is likely also the most economical. The cans of fish food do not have a moral philosophy attached to them; they are intended to nourish the fish, and that's it. When the fish eat...they aren't navel-gazing or attempting to achieve some moral high ground; they are simply eating.

When you attempt to force your moral stance on the nutrition of these animals, you are being disingenuous. If you really worried about their welfare, you would feed them what evolution has created them to eat. If you are unwilling to do so, then frankly euthanization would be more humane than experimenting on them and thinking you are doing good.

I do want to clarify that my comment regarding your grammar and English was not meant in any way as a slight. I was responding to the bot question raised by esoxlucius and nothing more. I respect anyone who can communicate in multiple languages.

Ok... I'm a vegan and I know personally dozens of vegans. From all the vegans ai know, some of them are vegans over 20 years ,I cant think of one that is taking supplements. It's not about wether your a vegan or not ,its about what you eat in specific. There are tons of vegan junk foods, like there ate tons of carnivorus junkfoods. A vegan that eat all day fatty foods high with cholesterol is in rust to suffer from the same problems that a meat eater ,eating the same amount of these foods will suffer. Same goes for foods that are low in proteins, in vitamins, high in sugars or in chemicals, colouring, preservatives and so..
And about the natural claim.. it's kind of funny isn't it? We live in our apartments, driving our cars to go ice skating in a mall in the middle of the summer, eating ice cream that has artificial colours created in a lab in it, that came out from a metal,electrical machine, going to the movies,flying with jets, breathing toxic gasses that we creat daily .. but all falls to eating an unnatural diet(did I mention the lab made ice cream?)...