8x3x2 sump question.

[duanes]

I always drill tanks within a few inches of the top rim), to help skim the surface where most " semi-invisible" contaminants actually collect.

And if power goes out, the tank will only drain to that poin, those few inches.
So you can run the sump quite full and get lots of extra water volume

Irun my sumps quite full, leaving just enough space, so if power does go out, the few inches of water from the main tank does not over flow it. But..
When the rainy season hits my area, or when I get simply distracted during a water change, I use a redundant constant PVC overflow in the sump to direct that extra water to a bucket or the garden.

When water in the sump hits the hole in the vertical PVC pipe (below) it sends water out of the tube in the shot above, during a rain storm.

In the rainy season here, the tank and sump often overflow, not a common problem for most aquarists if your tank is inside, but half the year for me.

I am also one of those....that believe you can never have enough filtration (maybe too much flow) but never too much filtration, and sumps are my preferred main modus operandi. Been doing planted sumps since the late 80s.

 

[Nyrkorey]

Ideally, you should fill the tank and continue to add water after it begins to overflow into the sump, until you reach the maximum water level in the sump (or compartment thereof) that you can achieve without overflowing the sump. This is done with the pump off.

Now turn on the pump and watch the water level drop in the sump as it is pumped up into the tank. Once the water flowing down balances out with the water pumping up, mark this level as "maximum" with marker, paint, etc. on the outside of the sump. The water level in the tank will be slightly above the top of the weir as it overflows back down at a rate that balances with the flow rate being pumped up from below. By doing this you are assured that the empty space in the sump is sufficient to contain all the overflow water from the tank if the pump stops working for whatever reason.

Finally, determine how low the water level can be allowed to drop in the pump compartment of the sump before the pump begins to suck air...either by simply eyeballing it or by gradually removing water from the system until the pump starts to suck air. Come up an inch or so above that level and then put a "minimum" marking on the exterior of the sump.

Now just keep the water level between the marks! If you have significant evaporation, you must monitor the water level in the sump to make sure it doesn't drop too low. If you need to top up, put in only enough to bring the level in the sump back up to the "max" mark. If you have a decent water change schedule, and especially if you have your tank covered, there's a good chance you will never even need to worry about evaporation.

When you make adjustments to water level...whether it's adding a top-up due to evaporation, removing a few gallons by siphoning some schmutz out of the tank, or whatever...it takes at least a few minutes for the tank and sump levels to re-stabilize.

I'm reading this and it sounds really complicated. It's not. It's all just common sense; setting it up and monitoring it for a few days or weeks will make you familiar and comfortable with how it functions and how to maximize that function. It's definitely more work to set up at the outset, but once you have it dialed in it puts other types of filters to shame in terms of efficiency and ease of maintenance. You'll love it.

What an amazing response! I screen shotted that haha so let's say I have my sump in my 135 and on that first let's say compartment, do i fill that till just thats full? Or let the water run over that first compartment filling up the rest of the sump until the rest of the sump fills before overflowing back too that first part? I assume that's correct right? I hope that made sense lmao then I would my pump on, I will start sucking water out and where it levels off that's my max line.. then I syphon water out of the tank or the sump for my min line?

 

[ken31cay]

What an amazing response! I screen shotted that haha so let's say I have my sump in my 135 and on that first let's say compartment, do i fill that till just thats full? Or let the water run over that first compartment filling up the rest of the sump until the rest of the sump fills before overflowing back too that first part? I assume that's correct right? I hope that made sense lmao then I would my pump on, I will start sucking water out and where it levels off that's my max line.. then I syphon water out of the tank or the sump for my min line?

Yes agreed, thanks for the save jjohnwm

 

[esoxlucius]

Wow, I'm exhausted reading through this lot, lol. The fact of it is, and this thread is proof, is that the workings of a sump are way more complicated to explain in words than it really is in practise, lol. Once you get it running and understand everything about sumps, then you will look back on this thread and laugh!

The obvious thing for you to resolve at the minute before you do anything is to decide what kind of sump you are going to run. A sump with compartments, which yours doesn't have because it's just a spare tank, or an open plan sump, which is exactly what yours will be, unless you add baffles.

Baffles can be glass dividers siliconed in place, which is somewhat permanent. Or baffles can also be sheets of poret foam stood vertically. These can be moved about to suit your requirements.

Or you can go for the proper open plan look which doesn't have any compartments at all, which some people do actually prefer (it's a style that's not for me though). I prefer stand alone sections for mechanical and biological filtration followed by an area for the pump.

So, which one are you going to go for?

 

[Nyrkorey]

Wow, I'm exhausted reading through this lot, lol. The fact of it is, and this thread is proof, is that the workings of a sump are way more complicated to explain in words than it really is in practise, lol. Once you get it running and understand everything about sumps, then you will look back on this thread and laugh!

The obvious thing for you to resolve at the minute before you do anything is to decide what kind of sump you are going to run. A sump with compartments, which yours doesn't have because it's just a spare tank, or an open plan sump, which is exactly what yours will be, unless you add baffles.

Baffles can be glass dividers siliconed in place, which is somewhat permanent. Or baffles can also be sheets of poret foam stood vertically. These can be moved about to suit your requirements.

Or you can go for the proper open plan look which doesn't have any compartments at all, which some people do actually prefer (it's a style that's not for me though). I prefer stand alone sections for mechanical and biological filtration followed by an area for the pump.

So, which one are you going to go for?

I'm going too add baffles too it, I'm just not 100% sure what height i should go with for the baffles for the 135 which is about 22 inches high so I know I don't go too high for over flow and im not sure on the return pump. What brand/size too go with so im not pulling more water then is returned
The holes drilled are 2.5 inches so ill have about 1.5 bullheads

 

[esoxlucius]

The very basic diagram below gives you an idea. Point "X" is quite critical. This gives you your sump running depth. If you have this baffle too high then you risk the sump flooding in the event of pump failure/power outage. Guys with sumps, at the beginning, get the system running, and then cut the power. You always get a slight run off from the display tank. It is this run off that your sump must be able to accommodate.

Your pump should never be pushing more water than what it receives. Simply because your plumbing from your tank to the sump should always be a greater diameter than your return from your pump back to the tank. Also, to help dial this in even more, you can get variable speed pumps which you can tweak.

Mechanical filtration is usually sponges, filter socks or filter floss. Bio filtration can be anything really, there's tonnes of different types.

It is also worth noting with sumps that any evaporation will show itself in your pump compartment only. Your display tank and other sump compartments will always remain at the same level. So check your pump compartment regularly so you can top up if necessary.

 

[Finster90]

The very basic diagram below gives you an idea. Point "X" is quite critical. This gives you your sump running depth. If you have this baffle too high then you risk the sump flooding in the event of pump failure/power outage. Guys with sumps, at the beginning, get the system running, and then cut the power. You always get a slight run off from the display tank. It is this run off that your sump must be able to accommodate.

Your pump should never be pushing more water than what it receives. Simply because your plumbing from your tank to the sump should always be a greater diameter than your return from your pump back to the tank. Also, to help dial this in even more, you can get variable speed pumps which you can tweak.

Mechanical filtration is usually sponges, filter socks or filter floss. Bio filtration can be anything really, there's tonnes of different types.

It is also worth noting with sumps that any evaporation will show itself in your pump compartment only. Your display tank and other sump compartments will always remain at the same level. So check your pump compartment regularly so you can top up if necessary.
View attachment 1537450

Awesome! I actually understand all of this now thanks too this thread! So you don't want that last baffle too high because thats my main concern. I'm going too make everything today. Well just the baffles and everything, i gotta go get glass cut, I wanna make sure I cut the right height. I believe the 135 is like 22 inches high is there a safe number you would go for baffle height? I was going to xome down like 5-6 inches
Is there also a pump people recommend

 

[jjohnwm]

...let's say I have my sump in my 135 and on that first let's say compartment, do i fill that till just thats full? Or let the water run over that first compartment filling up the rest of the sump until the rest of the sump fills before overflowing back too that first part? I assume that's correct right? I hope that made sense lmao then I would my pump on, I will start sucking water out and where it levels off that's my max line.. then I syphon water out of the tank or the sump for my min line?

Well....uh...I suppose that if you...um..............huh????

I'm not at all sure what you are asking...but then I just reread my earlier response and it confuses even me!

If you aren't sure what or how many or how large the partitions are to be...why put them in? The more partitions you add, the smaller the compartment that contains the pump will be...and that means that the pump is in much greater danger of running dry.

If you use a 135 gallon sump with no partitions...it can contain many gallons of overflow water in case of a pump outage. As water evaporates, or if you remove a large rock or siphon out some water...whatever...the water level drops in the entire 135-gallon sump. It's going to be almost unnoticeable and will happen very slowly, which means the pump will not run dry unless the whole thing is neglected for many days or weeks.

If you start gluing in a bunch of partitions...the very last partition that goes right to the bottom and is closest to the pump creates a very tiny chamber for the pump. Instead of the pump chamber being an entire 135 tank...the pump is now in a small chamber at one end that contains only a relatively very few gallons. That is the only compartment of the whole system where the water will rise or fall with evaporation, water removal, water addition, etc. Just siphoning out a few gallons of water during a clean-up could drain that small compartment far enough that the pump runs dry.

The sump on my 360-gallon consists of two bins, roughly 60-70 gallons each, hooked up in series. The first bin is always filled to the top, and it overflows near the top into the second bin, which is where the pump is located. The max mark is on that second bin, about halfway up. When I turn off the pump, I get about 30-ish gallons of water draining down from the tank, which fills that second bin right to the top. And when the pump is running, with the bin filled to the max mark, I can remove about 25 gallons of water from the system before the water level in that second bin even comes close to the min mark. With the tank covered, I can ignore the water level for many weeks without worrying about evaporation taking it too low...and since I will be doing water changes at least weekly, there's no top-ups ever required. That's a big safety buffer, and is very comforting.

Foam partitions are a different animal; they are permeable to water...so I don't really think of them as partitions...but still allow segregation of different media, heaters, etc.

 

[Nyrkorey]

My apologies for the confusing response lol how do you run an open sump? Ide like the have the i let come in and a whole wide open 135.. then just throw a pump on the other side but wouldn't stuff get caught in the pump? In an open sump I woukd just throw a bunch of songes and media in mesh bags and let them just sit wherever in the tank? Bc that sound significantly easier lol I was trying to find an example of one and cannot for some reason lol
As for cleaning an open sump I guess you can just throw your siphon in there and just vaccum up all the gunk that collects
I was thinking about splitting it just in two one side all K1 and the other side well whatever I felt like and a pump

 

[esoxlucius]

So you don't want that last baffle too high because thats my main concern.

Look at that basic diagram I did. If that was your constant running level, and then all of a sudden the pump went off, look at how much space there is for your run off from your display tank to go into before the sump actually overflows! There's quite a bit of space there.

Once your pump goes off it doesn't really take that long for your display tank to completely "level off" with the tank outlet, and then the flow into your sump will stop. Your 135g sump is quite big and should take the extra run off comfortably.

I think the problem with overflowing sumps comes from a very large tank running with a sump that is wayyyyy too small. That is the danger.

You'll have to play around and find out what works for you. Once you get used to it you'll literally be grinning from ear to ear. Sumps really are a magnificent method of filtration.