Stacking Media In Sump

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HUKIT

Aimara
MFK Member
Jan 7, 2010
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The Suburbs Of Chicago
I’ve played with blue dye a few of times while setting up sumps. This was an interesting video on different methods of media placement and how it affects the flow patterns through the sump. It’s not Earth shattering but I hope it may be helpful to someone.


This was the dye I used so if you’re bored it’s fun to play with. FYI a little goes a very long way.

 
The illusion, is that more media provides better biological filtration.

The reality is , that it is not the volume of media, but the food to micro'organism ratio, and oxygen content thru the media (aeration) that determine its efficacy.

I use 3 three inch bags of rings, in my 125 gal sump as bio-media, and my testing indicates that
these 3 tiny bags detoxify all the ammonia and ntirite produced by my the fish in my 180 gal commint tank, which averages about 20, X 4 to 8¨fish.
80% of my sump is dedicated to plants, which alsp detoxify ammonia and nitrite, but also more importantly (to me) help detoxify nitrate, which most bio-media, ¨doesn´t do¨.

The recirculating flow thru my sump ia approx 1500 gph, so aeration is strong, keeping those 3 bags of bactreia totally oxygenated.

I agree with the video, stacking media on top of media does nothing positive, but that adding an airstone below media does help a lot, because it aerates the bacteria to make them more efficient at ammonia and nitrite detoxification
 
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I don't think it matters if there is uneven flow through the media, and I don't think it matters. I even think a few dead spots are good.
 
So, we can clearly see that water follows the least restricted path.
The internal surface of the media is unimportant because water flows around it.
That's why ceramic rings and balls are 4–6 times less effective than foams (or K1 - Kaldnes).

duanes duanes
Once again, you forgot about the foam in the sump that does the filtration, not your bag of rings... Just remove all the sponges and watch the water clarity deteriorate...
I don’t have ceramics in my filter—only foams and some K1 around the pump to fill the space effectively.
The water is crystal clear, and the filter is maintenance-free!
The key is to have enough space for the biofilm, and it’s much more than what's needed for nitrification... because the filter’s purpose is also to oxidize dissolved organic carbon.


 
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I did not forget abot the foam, that is used for mechanical filtration, if which I used used to wall. off the pump, and catch detritus.
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And in many cases that mechanical filtration can also provide some biological filtration.

But water clarity, does not necessarily mean great water quality for fish.
Clear water, can also be toxic with a deadly combinations of chemical components, just at brown, or tinted waters can be healthy.
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The water above was loaded with healthy fish
The river below was down stream from a pig farm, and although clear, with lots of algal growth, indicating high nitrate pollutants, but no healthy fish.
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Once we found, and smelled the pig farm upstream, it was clear why no fish were found.
I realize it seems extreme, but indicatess that clear water is not always an proof of good water quality
 
So, we can clearly see that water follows the least restricted path.
The internal surface of the media is unimportant because water flows around it.
That's why ceramic rings and balls are 4–6 times less effective than foams (or K1 - Kaldnes).



It’s funny you mentioned that as they did that test too and with the porosity of foam it did indeed colonize bacteria faster than bio-rings. I have never tried any MBBR systems so I can’t comment on that. I do have big old slabs of Poret foam in all my sumps but honestly I placed them there to catch detritus before it hits the media.
 
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It’s funny you mentioned that as they did that test too and with the porosity of foam it did indeed colonize bacteria faster than bio-rings. I have never tried any MBBR systems so I can’t comment on that. I do have big old slabs of Poret foam in all my sumps but honestly I placed them there to catch detritus before it hits the media.
Yeah, if I was building a setup like that I'd be very tempted go with a bunch of fine sponges instead. You can much more easily make it tight fitting so water can't sneak around them.
 
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Yeah, if I was building a setup like that I'd be very tempted go with a bunch of fine sponges instead. You can much more easily make it tight fitting so water can't sneak around them.
Honestly I’ve never really given bio media much thought until recently as it always just worked. All of my sumps are set up identically with filter socks, poret foam, and Biomax. Recently I’ve been far more interested in tinkering and started playing with new types of available media. I’m using the Maxspect Nano Tech blocks and the results with regards to finishing the nitrogen cycle has been impressive. Last Monday I started a new test with Seachem de❊nitrate in a low flow media reactor on a 90g so I’m curious to see how this one goes.
 
I rarely put any "bio media" in my tanks/filters. As all media is bio media.
My suspicion is 99.5% of all our tanks would be fine if we ditched the "bio media". The sand, driftwood, rocks, sponges, glass, etc would provide ample surface area to host the necessary bacteria to for our systems.
The 0.5% that actually need the bio media are the discus breeders with no substrate and barely any decor. Or anyone mimicking such conditions.
 
Isn't it wonderful? Multiple experienced keepers in disagreement...you're wrong, I'm right, he's out to lunch, she doesn't know what she's talking about. My method works because of this...your idea is obviously wrong because of that. Listen to me, because I'm the smartest guy in the room! I use big words, therefore I must be correct. I read all the promotional literature from all the manufacturers, so I must be right. I spend more on the hobby than you do, so I'm by definition a better fishkeeper than you.

And yet somehow all these folks are keeping fish successfully! How can this be?

Here's a chart comparing the surface area of various biomedia; I've seen similar things in multiple places on the internet, and they may not be identical but the general gist of them is very similar:
biomedia chart.png

If you don't think it's valid...you may very well be correct. So many of these comparisons look so similar that I think that's an argument for generally accepting it. A few outliers show things like ceramic rings and clay balls as having far more surface area, but I think that perhaps those inflated numbers are displaying the area of clean, unused media, straight out of the box with the price tag still attached. In practice...I think...these ultra-fine-pored media will very quickly become clogged with biofilm and microscopic debris, rendering the majority of their surface area useless...IMHO. And look at the numbers for poly floss; they may be correct when you put the stuff in on Monday morning, but by the end of the day, or the middle of the week, that light fluffy cloud of floss has degenerated to a flat black layer of slime, through which very little water actually penetrates, so...?

These charts don't consider other aspects of biomedia, such as cost. Some folks think that spending more on media guarantees better performance; I sometimes think that they should try a biomedia chamber filled with folding money just to see what happens. It'll work...I mean, anything will work, since the basic function of biomedia is just to sit there and be covered with bacteria...but then we'll probably get into a debate over the relative efficiency of $50 bills as opposed to $20's or $10's.

A biggie for me is weight, which ties in with ease of cleaning. No matter how carefully and thoroughly we mechanically filter our water before sending it into the biomedia, the media will eventually benefit from an occasional cleaning to remove excess biofilm, debris, sludge, etc. Ceramics weigh a ton and are a PITA to remove for cleaning. Sponges, for which I have almost unbridled admiration as a filter media, are also a messy PITA to clean, although this is not a frequent requirement...thank goodness.

I'm not sure about the obsession with ultimate efficiency. Stacked vs random; static vs fluid; blah, blah, blah. If Media A works "better" than Media B...if such can even be detected and agreed upon...then logic would dictate that you use only Media A. And yet we see all manner of sumps with countless chambers and partitions, each section filled with a different boutique medium. Why? If one is better than the other, why devote any space to the other?

We can't all be right, we can't all be wrong. But...if a keeper's chosen method works for him and his tank is healthy and his fish are thriving...why should he care what others think or say? And conversely, if he is constantly dealing with mysterious diseases and health problems and cloudy water and worrisome test numbers...then why would anyone care what he thinks or says? :)
 
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