Super red juvy?

RD.

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I agree with what you said, Kolt. The only thing that I think one needs to keep in mind is that other than the OP stating that their fish came from New Orleans, there is no provenance regarding the parents, or this fishes blood line. There could be just about anything in the mix.

The problem is RT/SRT, or any other designation and the definitions of those forms of terminology are all man made terms that are often used to inflate the fish, or the fish owner, and there is no real standard. It's actually in keeping of what you just posted. Any hybrid cross with a "texas" cichlid, no matter the genus carpin/cyano, or the other parent fish (cit, lab, BP, KKP, FH, etc) have been referred to and or sold as, *Red Texas*. Even pale orange specimens, hence terms such as "super" being used to describe primo specimens. Same reasoning behind SKKP, and the more basic KKP. Some are super duper, some aren't. lol

BTW - you missed my edit, I actually changed it to "pretty much never seen here in NA". :) I have seen only a few SRT locally, which later lost their intense red due to being hormoned in Asia prior to being exported. The true SRT's that surface, as stated are worth their weight in gold. Well, almost.


I do not recall ever seeing what I would personally refer to as a "super" red texas owned by anyone here on MFK, but perhaps I missed them, or it was posted before my time. (pre 2005, when I started lurking) As an example, an RT that hasn't fully peeled, does not meet the super designation in my book.
 
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RD.

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And AG, what I said was; "I could post pics of my last RT, he was nicer than most that one will see on MFK, and a solid 11" male, but still not what most in the know would define as super. But really, who cares? If you are happy with your fish call it whatever you feel like."

Other than pictures off the internet, I have not seen a lot of nice RT's from MFK owners posted here, or any SRT's that I can recall. So yeah, I stand by my earlier comment. Mine was what I would consider an RT (not SRT), and nicer than most one will see on MFK. And seeing as we are still discussing my fish, here's a couple more pics. :) Keep in mind that I took all of these photos with a $10 point & shot camera. No NAN lights, photoshop, etc. Really crappy photos of a fairly decent example of an RT.
His massive size alone places him in the top tier of MFK RT. IMHO

redtex39.jpg redtex41.jpg

redtex36.jpg

redtex35.jpg
 

Woefulrelic

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I'll never understand you cichlid people :p

I just want some wild caught African riverines and that's that. none of this fancy shmancy stuff
Hybrid discussion and proper cichlid discussion are very different beasts.
 

koltsixx

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I agree with what you said, Kolt. The only thing that I think one needs to keep in mind is that other than the OP stating that their fish came from New Orleans, there is no provenance regarding the parents, or this fishes blood line. There could be just about anything in the mix.

The problem is RT/SRT, or any other designation and the definitions of those forms of terminology are all man made terms that are often used to inflate the fish, or the fish owner, and there is no real standard. It's actually in keeping of what you just posted. Any hybrid cross with a "texas" cichlid, no matter the genus carpin/cyano, or the other parent fish (cit, lab, BP, KKP, FH, etc) have been referred to and or sold as, *Red Texas*. Even pale orange specimens, hence terms such as "super" being used to describe primo specimens. Same reasoning behind SKKP, and the more basic KKP. Some are super duper, some aren't. lol

BTW - you missed my edit, I actually changed it to "pretty much never seen here in NA". :) I have seen only a few SRT locally, which later lost their intense red due to being hormoned in Asia prior to being exported. The true SRT's that surface, as stated are worth their weight in gold. Well, almost.


I do not recall ever seeing what I would personally refer to as a "super" red texas owned by anyone here on MFK, but perhaps I missed them, or it was posted before my time. (pre 2005, when I started lurking) As an example, an RT that hasn't fully peeled, does not meet the super designation in my book.
You of course are right. I had thought about touching on it in my previous posts but chose not to because my posts where already very lengthy. In my opinion the greatest encumbrance to Hybrids is the fact that no one is really creating any kind of grading system or set standard for these names. There is some in regards to flowerhorns but as far as I know nothing as far as KKP, SKKP, Red Texas. The other issue is the way undesirable young are just marketed to local chains stores further increasing the quantity of inferior progeny and them being possibly confused with natural occurring species by inexperienced hobbyists and retailers.

Without such standards or grading system any name can be applied to any inferior hybrid in the hopes of capitalizing on a specific high quality hybrid name that has garnered attention in the attempt on capitalizing on it's marketability. More or less I'm just reiterating what you already said. Which is a pity because it could IMO ruin both natural and hybrid aspects of the hobby for a great many people. Making the hobby a target for less dedicated people who will simply come and go as the fads do.

IMO with the introduction of more and more members comparing walmart and the like flowerhorns to transhipped and worth hundreds of dollars flowerhorns as though they where equals has IMO made this section less active as some serious Hybrid enthusiast chose to leave MFK for exactly that reason.

By the way nice Red Texas RD. and sorry I missed your edit RD. Hopefully i can make up for it with this, the closest I've seen recently to a RT/SRT? here in that states. It was sold as a SB RT I believe by an acquaintance of mine just a couple of months ago.
Tuan Red Texas.jpg
 
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RD.

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Definitely what I would consider a SB SRT, I can only imagine what it sold for.
 

koltsixx

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I believe it went for a $1000. Which kind of exemplifies what I'm saying IMHO. Is it fair to compare or call the RT's found in LFS's to something like this? When the price difference, quality of it's progenitors and the effort in producing these fish is on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
 
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Woefulrelic

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I believe it went for a $1000. Which kind of exemplifies what I'm saying IMHO. Is it fair to compare or call the RT's found in LFS's to something like this? When the price difference, quality of it's progenitors and the effort in producing these fish is on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
Out of curiosity and because I have very little idea of how these monsters procreate, would you mind explaining a little? I assumed that all the fry from the same batch would be of different quality and through culling process you end up with super nice ones. What if that culling process is simply selling all the ones that will end up undesirable and holding onto the ones with potential. I guess even those ones wouldn't end up in LFS though I guess.
 

koltsixx

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I can only guess at the process but judging by the huge differences in the fish that sell for thousand versus those sold for under twenty bucks, I'm guessing it's significant. For instance I believe they probably devote years and generations of many potential fish before finding the right combination. Where as a lot of sellers pushing inferior fish have just begun the process and are passing off their initial results under the same name for marketability. While the expensive RT's are line bred for generations and finally the best of the best are chosen and sold. While everything else is destroyed to save their credibility as selling superior fish. We don't see such hybrids often because in the US we just aren't willing to pay what some of these serious hobbyists overseas are willing. Again this is all speculation on my part.
 

RD.

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1K sounds about right. These types of "super" specimens is I believe where the term SRT comes in to play.

And Kolt, your speculation is pretty much bang on. Most of the lower quality RT's that show up in the hobby are first generation RT's, and are often the result of a female BP, and a male "texas". Many of those juvies never result in anything, some peel and look so-so, and maybe 1 out of thousands ends up red, or reddish, and is actually worth the name RT. Most are orangish, even if they do peel they never become truly red.

Lots of the imported RT's also do not turn out to be rock stars once they mature. Too many pearls (like my fish), or they become orange, not red, or they never fully fade or peel, with too much black showing. It's for this reason that I used to always recommend that people buy an RT that has already peeled, and is showing most of its full potential - vs spending a bunch of money on a 2-3" fish that is too young for most hobbyist to properly grade. Many turn out to be duds - of course the breeder or overseas vendor knows this.

I don't know how many people remember CJbarth, but several years ago he was breeding RT's, using a female RT (imported) and a male carpintis I believe. He produced a LOT of juvies, a few turned out very nice, one particular male was really nice as he matured, but unfortunately he too stayed orange. But CJ only charged $10 per fish as I recall.
 
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RD.

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Just for the OP and others to compare, some of Chris's (CJBarth) grow outs.



Here's a faded 5" RT.


Not too shabby for a guy selling his juvies on the cheap, and he was USA based. His RT's were still some of the best that I have seen, comparing home grown NA based fish.

Another good one ........

 
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