180 gallon Stocking

[TheVelourFog]

Hi,

I am looking for some insights into stocking my new 180 Gallon 6x2x2 that is on the way. I have done A LOT of homework on this and thought I would ask the experts here to get a proper consensus on stocking.
Currently I have a Juwel Rio 240 with 3x Clown loaches (approx 3-4 inches), 3x Geophagus Topajos (approx 3-4 inches), 4x Angelfish (Approx 6-7 inches tall tip to tip of fins), 1x Red Parrot ( Approx 6 inches long) 1X Electric Blue Acara (approx 3-4 inches) and 1x Bristlenose ( Approx 5 inches).
Tank currently is and new one will be similarly planted with some amazon sword, various anubias, java fern and mosses. Plenty of rocks and caves and loads of driftwood reaching up into the water column for LOS breaks. Filtration will be 2x FX6 with a large sponge filter inside the tank.

I want to stick mostly to south american cichlids and was considering Nicaraguan cichlids, Threadfin acara, Albino Hecklii and Firemouth. I would love to have a Gold Saum in there if possible (Angelfish are my biggest concern here). Ideally a couple more clown loaches would also be nice. Has anyone had anything similar that worked out?

I am also open to some African cichlids (I know mixing is a touchy subject) as long as the temperament is ok and there is low risk of bullying or injury on either side. I merely mention as my brother in law keeps Malawi's and I really like the look of dragon blood peacocks, yellow labs and another that I think was a Sulphur head or an OB. Neither of us have extensive knowledge of of respective sides so not sure what would work if anything. Ph etc will be a non-issue as all would be tank raised in the same water locally.

I am unsure on dither fish and was considering Denison barbs or silver dollars but that all depends on the rest of the stocking.

If anyone could chime in on what has worked and not worked for them given what is mentioned that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Hi,

Having clown loaches myself, I would recommend to rehome the clown loaches or set up their own tank for them. Cichlids and loaches are generally not compatible.

I have found that Clown Loaches and Cichlids speak a different "body language" and in this respect may be considered at least partly incompatible in the close confines of the aquarium.

My loaches did not respect the cichlid threat displays and rudely invaded the cichlid's territory. They proved impossible to evict and I feel this caused stress to my cichlid.

loaches living with electric yellow cichlids - Loaches Online Forum

However, I would add, being a cichlid keeper myself, I would never combine Botias with cichlids.

Both have their own agression, and weapons, but they do not know the other, do not expect the behaveior the other shows, and therefore are unable to cope with the agression.

The demands for the water may be the same, but it is still not a good combination

But I wholeheartedly agree that Loaches and Cichlids do not speak the same language and cause each other stress. For example Clown Loaches have no idea that you don't invade the personal space of a Cichlid unless you want your eyes biting out. And Cichlids don't realise that rough and tumble is acceptable play and not fighting to the death. I know your cichlids are much gentler would not mix them again as the problems are the same if less extreme.

Moving large clown loaches and qt - Loaches Online Forum

Usually we suggest that loaches should not be kept with cichlids. Even when the tank parameters are similar, they are not the same. If you think about it in a broader way, when you keep cichlids you have to give them the right conditions for them to thrive. We think the same way about loaches - that is, their needs should be provided for and that's what dictates which other fish you put in with them. Both cichlids and loaches should be considered the primary fish for your tank, and never as secondary.

More and more aquarists are thinking about tanks in terms of region - mixing fish that are found together in the wild, rather than mixing fish just because you like species A (found in southeast Asia) and species B (found in Africa or South America).

Keep them separate, and cater to the needs of each, and you'll have better results.

compatibility with cichlids? - Loaches Online Forum

Overall, in the big picture, there is a compromise if keeping them together, with neither being best served.

There are cichlid species that have similar water chemistry requirements. However, the thing you've got to look at is the bigger picture.

People do keep Oscars with Clown Loaches. The problem is, if you buy small Clowns and small Oscars, the Oscars are going to rapidly outgrow the Loaches and become a physical threat to them.

You can keep Clowns with Dwarf Cichlids. Certainly Microgeophagus ramirezi would fit in. The problem then comes from the fact that Clowns need loads of current in their tank that most cichlids will be uncomfortable with.

There's going to have to be a compromise somewhere, but then neither species is being best served. We're biased of course and would always set the tank up for the primary requirements of the Clown Loaches. That requires a lot more investment than just a big tank.

My 125 is filtered by 2 Rena XP3 cannister filters, and an Aquaclear 500 HOB. Then there's additional powerheads, plus a recently added Fluval 4 internal filter. Lots of water movement, mechanical and biological filtration.

Edit: Since you mentioned African cichlids too: https://www.loaches.com/articles/why-loaches-should-not-be-kept-with-malawi-cichlids

Good luck!

 

[Rocksor]

What do you mean by worked out? Do you mean worked out for 2-3 years? Worked out for 10 years? I strive for 10 years with larger cichlids, and I can tell you that as they age, things can go south 5 years later. With gold saums, it's about a 50% chance you will get an aggressive one.

You don't need dithers with your current stocking. Personally, I would just increase the Geo Tapajos to 6-8. Let the red blood parrot be the center piece.

 

[tlindsey]

Hi,

I am looking for some insights into stocking my new 180 Gallon 6x2x2 that is on the way. I have done A LOT of homework on this and thought I would ask the experts here to get a proper consensus on stocking.
Currently I have a Juwel Rio 240 with 3x Clown loaches (approx 3-4 inches), 3x Geophagus Topajos (approx 3-4 inches), 4x Angelfish (Approx 6-7 inches tall tip to tip of fins), 1x Red Parrot ( Approx 6 inches long) 1X Electric Blue Acara (approx 3-4 inches) and 1x Bristlenose ( Approx 5 inches).
Tank currently is and new one will be similarly planted with some amazon sword, various anubias, java fern and mosses. Plenty of rocks and caves and loads of driftwood reaching up into the water column for LOS breaks. Filtration will be 2x FX6 with a large sponge filter inside the tank.

I want to stick mostly to south american cichlids and was considering Nicaraguan cichlids, Threadfin acara, Albino Hecklii and Firemouth. I would love to have a Gold Saum in there if possible (Angelfish are my biggest concern here). Ideally a couple more clown loaches would also be nice. Has anyone had anything similar that worked out?

I am also open to some African cichlids (I know mixing is a touchy subject) as long as the temperament is ok and there is low risk of bullying or injury on either side. I merely mention as my brother in law keeps Malawi's and I really like the look of dragon blood peacocks, yellow labs and another that I think was a Sulphur head or an OB. Neither of us have extensive knowledge of of respective sides so not sure what would work if anything. Ph etc will be a non-issue as all would be tank raised in the same water locally.

I am unsure on dither fish and was considering Denison barbs or silver dollars but that all depends on the rest of the stocking.

If anyone could chime in on what has worked and not worked for them given what is mentioned that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Welcome aboard

 

[TheVelourFog]

Hi,

Having clown loaches myself, I would recommend to rehome the clown loaches or set up their own tank for them. Cichlids and loaches are generally not compatible.

loaches living with electric yellow cichlids - Loaches Online Forum

Moving large clown loaches and qt - Loaches Online Forum

compatibility with cichlids? - Loaches Online Forum

Overall, in the big picture, there is a compromise if keeping them together, with neither being best served.


Edit: Since you mentioned African cichlids too: https://www.loaches.com/articles/why-loaches-should-not-be-kept-with-malawi-cichlids

Good luck!

Thanks for this, I was actually unaware of the compatibility issues with loaches as I've seen some cichlid tanks with them before. The Africans were very low on the list to begin with and most likely wouldn't get them anyway but having to get rid of my clown loaches will genuinely break heart. I've had them the longest and are one of my favourite fish, fully aware they can live decades but what you said makes perfect sense and last thing I want is one of them torn asunder for unwittingly invading territory.
I presume as the rest of the cichlids mature in the current tank I would start to notice increased aggression towards them?

 

[TheVelourFog]

What do you mean by worked out? Do you mean worked out for 2-3 years? Worked out for 10 years? I strive for 10 years with larger cichlids, and I can tell you that as they age, things can go south 5 years later. With gold saums, it's about a 50% chance you will get an aggressive one.

You don't need dithers with your current stocking. Personally, I would just increase the Geo Tapajos to 6-8. Let the red blood parrot be the center piece.

Yeah I've been sitting on the fence a very long time on this one. I think they are absolutely fantastic looking but aggression levels tend to vary so much with them sometimes. The angels are two pairs also so if they start trying to breed and get territorial I reckon they will swiftly be on their way back to heaven.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Thanks for this, I was actually unaware of the compatibility issues with loaches as I've seen some cichlid tanks with them before. The Africans were very low on the list to begin with and most likely wouldn't get them anyway but having to get rid of my clown loaches will genuinely break heart. I've had them the longest and are one of my favourite fish, fully aware they can live decades but what you said makes perfect sense and last thing I want is one of them torn asunder for unwittingly invading territory.
I presume as the rest of the cichlids mature in the current tank I would start to notice increased aggression towards them?

Yes, a lot of people do mix the 2 unfortunately. They are either unaware of the compatability issues or deliberately ignore them just because they like the mix.

I would indeed expect increased aggression towards the loaches as the cichlids mature. It is one of the reasons why I don't keep cichlids, this increased aggression can really break compatibility.

Since you are so attached to the loaches, here's some advice from the perspective of having them as a favorite.
If I were you, I'd rehome the cichlids and replace them with a school of freshwater archerfish. These are cichlid-like fish that are very compatible with clown loaches in aspects cichlids are not (diet, water chemistry, habitat, and temperament) since they are found together in the wild but in non-conflicting top and bottom water levels.

 

[Niki_up]

It sometimes doesn’t happen gradually where you have time to intervene and remove the offender.

I kept a 9-10 inch vieja cichlid with a 12ish inch l95 pleco and the veija decided nope not happening and I came home to a disemboweled pleco. That was a hard financial and fish loss.

I’d say practice the 5 P’s

proper planning prevents pi$$ poor performance

 

[duanes]

I currently have two 180 gal tanks, so I can relate.
I believe with your current stock (when they are all adults) will max the tank out as far as stocking goes. (especially if you keep the clowns, as adults they will max the tank out on their own). Thankfully they are rather slow growers.

Some thing to consider going forward, beyond what others have advised.
Angelfish prefer slow water movement.
Geophagus generally live in places where water movement is moderate to strong.
In a 180 both environments could be provided with some planning .

 

[TheVelourFog]

I currently have two 180 gal tanks, so I can relate.
I believe with your current stock (when they are all adults) will max the tank out as far as stocking goes. (especially if you keep the clowns, as adults they will max the tank out on their own). Thankfully they are rather slow growers.

Some thing to consider going forward, beyond what others have advised.
Angelfish prefer slow water movement.
Geophagus generally live in places where water movement is moderate to strong.
In a 180 both environments could be provided with some planning .

Thanks, I am considering leaning towards just some smaller mild mannered cichlids like electric blues etc to be sure there is absolute minimal aggression all round.
For the flow I had a few ideas in mind for positioning filter outlets and possibly a not too strong wave maker in certain areas to increase flow for anyone that prefers it but there would be a nice big area around the top and mid of the tank that the angels would be comfortable in too. I will have air stones installed so I won't be compromising too much on surface agitation and could angle outlets much lower to create a nice little under current that would also help in pushing poop etc towards the filter intakes.