2 Senegals died, Ornate and Striped fine

[spilorhynchus]

Hello all,

I have an intriguing situation to ask everyone about. Tonight I changed my tank around and changed water. My pike cichlids and ornate and striped bichirs had no problems with this whatsoever. In fact they all look terrific right now. However, my 2 Senegal bichirs both flipped out shortly after I filled the tank. Both first sat still on the bottom, one hid until he died. The other one responded to my prodding by flying around the tank, bumping into everything. He jumped out. I put him back in. He tried to jump out again. He would sit still looking dead for awhile, then wig out again and fly around, then look dead again. Finally he died. Both of them had air come out of their mouths during their dying process. Both of them lost their color during death. The water has a pH between 7 and 7.5, and neither this nor temperature or hardness were altered much by the water change. However, perhaps there were other chemicals altered by my activities. Here is everything I did to the tank today:

water change of almost 50%, very close to same water parameters added
removed two large pieces of wood that wasn't fully cured and was partially rotting in the tank, the bichirs loved to hide in this wood (there is still other wood left in the tank)
added a few rocks which have previously been in other tanks with no problems
added sponges and rubber bands (bought from kensfish for packing fish) to hold the sponges in place,

So why did my Senegal bichirs die when the other bichirs and cichlids were fine???? I know I changed a lot of things but what is it that only Senegals are sensitive to?? Usually these fish are very very robust....

 

[Razman]

just a quick little off topic question, is the striped bichir a delhezi, a lapredai, or a endli? sorry for your loss.

 

[spoofsjsc]

my 2 suspects are your sponge and your wood. Just guessing...

The sponge was washed well, right? If it's new, it could have brought some things from the factory in with it.

The untreated wood might have released some chemicals when you stirred up the water. These chemicals were probably safely concentrated on certain parts of your wood but was released when you moved it and did the water change.

Or it could also be that your bichirs were just too stressed by all the commotion that went on.

 

[spilorhynchus]

Yeah I feel certain it was a bit too much commotion for one day so I feel terrible about that. I still don't understand why the ornatippinis and delhezi seemed completely fine while the Senegals flipped out. One Senegal was larger and one was smaller than the delhezi. They were all healthy before...

Razman, thanks for the condolences, here is a link to a picture that my striped bichir closely resembles, I'm almost sure he is a delhezi: http://www.transfish.de/polypterus/Poly-delhezi.jpg

Does anyone think the gas bubbles that came out of the mouth of the Senegals as they died is a clue? Could their air bladders have burst or something similar to that?

 

[Razman]

Yeah I feel certain it was a bit too much commotion for one day so I feel terrible about that. I still don't understand why the ornatippinis and delhezi seemed completely fine while the Senegals flipped out. One Senegal was larger and one was smaller than the delhezi. They were all healthy before...

Razman, thanks for the condolences, here is a link to a picture that my striped bichir closely resembles, I'm almost sure he is a delhezi: http://www.transfish.de/polypterus/Poly-delhezi.jpg

Does anyone think the gas bubbles that came out of the mouth of the Senegals as they died is a clue? Could their air bladders have burst or something similar to that?

yeah thats a delhezi, great fish. im not sure about the gas coming out of their mouths had anything to do with it, it might have been air that they had previously gulped down before you started the water change, but you could be right, their "lungs" could have bursted. which senagal flipped out and which one sat at the bottom the entire time? if the smaller one was sitting at the bottom then it might have just been to much of a w/c and the bigger one got freaked at the w/c and got hurt while he was hitting the floor when he jumped out. what do you mean by "prodding"?

 

[spilorhynchus]

"prodding" means I touched her with the net to see if she was still alive since she was lying on the bottom motionless. At this point the other fish and turtle were already picking at the remains of the smaller Senegal, so I wanted to get the big one out if it was gone rather than watch the carnage to come. She just started flying all over the tank and then out of it after I touched her with the net... it was sad. What might it be that Senegals are more sensitive to than Ornates or delhezis?

 

[lymiq]

Sorry about your losses. Based on what you described about the 2 LARGE DECAYING pieces wood you had in the old water, my guess is that it had lowered the ph level. Another factor of ph lowering is how much fish is stocked vs. oxygen exchange and the last previous water change. If you have an over stocked fish tank w/ little gas exchange, the carbon dioxide produced by fish, over-stocked plants and other decaying matter can react with water and lower the ph level and kh hardness. Unless you checked it before water change, i think it is very much possible that the drastic change in ph has a big effect on why they died.

I think the sponges might have been okay coming from a fish place, the rubber band can release strong rubber odor, not sure if that would kill your bichirs that quick.

I guess we are all guilty at not regularly checking the water parameters in our tank weekly until something catastropic or desease outbreak. I would monitor your tank closely with or without the pieces of wood.

My 75gal I once did a routine check and found that in a week between 70% water changes, it dipped from 7.2 to 5.0 (or lower since that is the lowest scale register). In the end I added crushed corals, removed a lot of plants to make the water more stable.

 

[Red Devil]

sorry for your loss..i know if i lost my senegals i would be distraught.. the only thing i can think of is they were highly stressed..in fact so much that they could have hit something with the force of their body.. jumping is one thing and jumping in panic is another... they were in a craze state so the sheer force of hitting into something would lead to their death.. very sorry!