300 gallon vieja community questions

[FishKing5]

Would it be possible to raise both males and females in a 300 gallon tank of vieja melanura/synspilum, black belts and Argentea?

could I have a group of vieja synspilum/melanura (Rio sarstun) both males and females for pairs to possibly form in a 300 or should I just stick to an all male show tank?

I'll be getting rid of one of the black belts once I decide I know which one I'd like to keep and turns out the nicest.

Could just one pair be fine with the rest of the fish being males? The fish are being raised together as juvies right now.

Current stock list.

Vieja melanura lago petens x2
Vieja red head synspilum unsexed x2
Vieja maculicauda black belts unsexed
Vieja melanura Rio sarstun x5 (3 males 2 females)
Vieja Argenteas unsexed x2

Will downsize stock once I figure out which fish I want to keep once they're bigger.
Mainly just wondering could any pairs manage in a community tank with these fish

I do Iike all male tanks as a show tank but was wondering if any pairs could manage or would there be too many issues

 

[Crazy mike]

I'd be highly worried about the argentea and black belt. Both have a reputation for not playing well with others. If those turned out to be females that would help the issue. Which species are you trying to have a pair of?

 

[FishKing5]

The rio sarstun melanura. I know the black belts and Argentea have a reputation for being aggressive but I've successfully kept them in community tanks before (all male tank) with no issues and have heard and studies that as long as their raised together as juvies with other fish they generally won't be as agressive. I would just separate them out if any serious problems arose. They've been doing just fine so far now around 4 inches and have been living together for about 4 months now. If I was to take out the Argentea and black belt would you think a few pairs of the melanura could coexist in a 300?

 

[FishKing5]

I'd be highly worried about the argentea and black belt. Both have a reputation for not playing well with others. If those turned out to be females that would help the issue. Which species are you trying to have a pair of?

The rio sarstun melanura. I know the black belts and Argentea have a reputation for being aggressive but I've successfully kept them in community tanks before (all male tank) with no issues and have heard and studies that as long as their raised together as juvies with other fish they generally won't be as agressive. I would just separate them out if any serious problems arose. They've been doing just fine so far now around 4 inches and have been living together for about 4 months now. If I was to take out the Argentea and black belt would you think a few pairs of the melanura could coexist in a 300?

 

[dan518]

If you add females there is a chance of cross breeding. As long as you have back up plan and the ability to swap stock about and fine fettle then give it a try

 

[FishKing5]

If you add females there is a chance of cross breeding. As long as you have back up plan and the ability to swap stock about and fine fettle then give it a try

I would have a spare 125 I could separate fish into If need be. An all male show tank of these species would be quite awesome as well though. Hmmmmmm... Decisions

 

[FishKing5]

So how about this. If I have a group of vieja 8 melanura that are mixed with males and females, and then one unsexed but most likely male black belt and an unsexed argentea in a 300 gallon. Think issues would arise if there ended up being a few pairs with the melanura? I really like watching these fish pair off and watch them interact with breeding and all that and know I should ideally just keep a species only tank but would love for this to work with one back belt and one Argentea in the mix

 

[FishKing5]

duanes what are your thoughts. I spoke with Jim Cummings N Notho and he seems to think that I would be just fine having pairs of melanura in a community tank with Argentea and a black belt. If things get ugly with the Argentea or black belts I can just remove them.

 

[ragin_cajun]

I think you have a pretty good chance in a 300 gallon tank. But, the other fish in the tank are gonna get crowded every time the pair spawn--which can be constantly.

I had a pair of Midas in a 540, and after a few spawns I had to take them out. They didn't really beat up other fish, but they'd chase them all away from the fry cloud, which was HUGE, so all the fish ended in 1/3 of the tank and the pair and their fry got 2/3 of the tank. The Midas would spawn over and over again, never stopped.

The other problem you'll run into is ..... what's a male and what's a female? I'm getting pretty tired of this with Vieja. It's a big pain to net fish outta big tanks, and even if I vent my fish, it's hard to really tell sex unless you have can compare vents of different sex fish of the same species. And they have to be big to vent them. But, you're not gonna be able to call and order "3 male Syn's, 6 female Syn's, 1 male Argentea, all of them 6-8 inches long". Breeders can't sex them either--especially not when they're 2-3 inches long. So, you're not gonna have any idea what sex the fish are for a long time unless they pair off.

Other problem you'll have is Synspila grow about 3 times faster than Argentea. Your Syn's will be full grown and spawning, and your Argentea still haven't hit 5 inches yet. It takes YEARS for Argentea to become adults.

 

[FishKing5]

I think you have a pretty good chance in a 300 gallon tank. But, the other fish in the tank are gonna get crowded every time the pair spawn--which can be constantly.

I had a pair of Midas in a 540, and after a few spawns I had to take them out. They didn't really beat up other fish, but they'd chase them all away from the fry cloud, which was HUGE, so all the fish ended in 1/3 of the tank and the pair and their fry got 2/3 of the tank. The Midas would spawn over and over again, never stopped.

The other problem you'll run into is ..... what's a male and what's a female? I'm getting pretty tired of this with Vieja. It's a big pain to net fish outta big tanks, and even if I vent my fish, it's hard to really tell sex unless you have can compare vents of different sex fish of the same species. And they have to be big to vent them. But, you're not gonna be able to call and order "3 male Syn's, 6 female Syn's, 1 male Argentea, all of them 6-8 inches long". Breeders can't sex them either--especially not when they're 2-3 inches long. So, you're not gonna have any idea what sex the fish are for a long time unless they pair off.

Other problem you'll have is Synspila grow about 3 times faster than Argentea. Your Syn's will be full grown and spawning, and your Argentea still haven't hit 5 inches yet. It takes YEARS for Argentea to become adults.

I'm getting my Rio sarstun melanura from Don Conkels and he says he can sex the melanura at 4 inches which is the size I'm getting. I'm just telling him to get me all males and if some or any end up being females then so be it. I'll just separate fish if I have to. I primarily want the tank to be a show tank anyways with mostly nice big males but I do think it would be very cool to see pairs develop in the tank but don't want to worry about constant problems and trying to move fry around and all that right now. That's more for down the road haha. I'll just ask for all males and see what happens. Thanks for your help man. Really appreciate it.