A little feedback pls!

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FlorabamaTrigger

Gambusia
MFK Member
Nov 23, 2010
187
11
18
San Anselmo, CA
I'm sorta new here, so pls forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong area.

I got my first tank back in June. I know this is a small one, but pls bare with me as I want to give as much background and info as I can in order for you to hopefully give me the correct advice. My first tank was a 29g that I setup using gravel as substrate, an air bubbler, plenty of places to hide, and an Aqua Clear 70 for filtration. I started out with 4 African Cichlids. By a fault of my own and forgetting to re-plug in the heater after a water change, (I've since learned my lesson to now double check), I lost my Bumble Bee as well as my Blue Kenyi. (Sorry if that isn't the correct names, but I got them from Petsmart and I'm still learning how to properly identify.) The smaller Electric Yellow and what I thought was a Zebra African (Which later turned bright Orange and stayed that way), made it through fine. But before I get ahead of myself, before my screw up with the heater when I still had four all still 2.5-3.5in long, my ammonia levels kept hitting .25ppm every 3-4 days. My Ph was at 8.2, and my Nitrites and Nitrates were both at zero. I was having to do 25-35% water changes twice a week on the 29g just to keep the ammonia levels at bay. So, I backed off of their feeding and went to barely any once a day, every other day. That helped some, but the ammonia levels are still hitting the .25ppm about every 3-4 days or so. So after some advice from a friend with a larger tank, I decided to go with my new 125g that is setup and I started my fishless cycling last Friday. I've read a ton of the topics here on fishless cycling, so I'm confident I'm setting that one up properly.
Now skip forward to after my screw-up with the heater. I still had two africans in the tank, neither are over 2.5in. Neither one would ever come out. Both ALWAYS hid, and very rarely, maybe once a week, would actually come out and come up to the surface to feed. They both would wait until the pellets fell, and shoot out to grab it, then back in their holes to hide again. Needless to say having a nice pretty tank that never has fish swimming in it gets extremely boring amd I was starting to feel like I might as well not bother with replacing these two if they died since I never saw them anyways! I decided that if I added two more and brought it back to the original 4, they might be more active and feel better about venturing out into the tank, especially at feedings. I got two more this weekend from Petsmart, (I know, I know, generally their fish don't last), But I figured I'd give it a shot. I got another bright orange, and another Electric Yellow. Everyone was fine and no fighting, and they were all more visible too. I came home tonight to the new Electric Yellow was dead laying on the bottom. I got him out and checked my levels. Sure nuff, Ph was 8.2, Nitrite and Nitrate levels were at zero, and the Ammonia was at .25ppm again. So I did about a 35% WC and added Prime.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking why the new Yellow died, I'm chalking it up to a fluke or just a bad fish since the others are doing well, although one is back in hiding and the other two are hugging the bottom, and even after I dropped food in and a pellet floated by their nose, nobody is eating. My question is wanting to understand the process so I don't make a mistake once I get my new 125 cycled and going and start investing in more expensive fish. In a nutshell, I know that my NITRATE levels need be below 40ppm, but with them and my Nitrite levels constantly at zero, is it possible that I've lost the 'cycle' process? Or is it okay if both of those levels stay at zero? And finally, is four Africans of that size too much for a 29g?

Next, with the fact of them always hiding, (and the tank is in the living room, no kids, and frankly neither my wife nor I are home during the day so there's not a lot of traffic in there), and me having to shut the light off, (i've got it on a timer so it comes on in the morening for an hour, and at night for about 3 hrs), is this normal for African Cichlids until they get bigger? Cause frankly, I like the looks of them. But if this is their personality normally, I'm going to rethink my stocking process in my 125 before I get it filled with Africans that constantly hide!
:feedback:
 
Okie, Here's the thing, the reason your nitrate is 0 is because your tank hasn't cycled. The toxic ammonia has to go up, so that there is stuff for the good bacteria to eat. Then you will have toxic Nitrite which also has to get pretty high, then more good bacteria come to the party and turn the nasty nitrite into less nasty nitrate. Once you have Nitrate your tank is cycled. Waterchanges slow or stop this from happening. (I did it too, it took my first 3 months because I was new and dumber)
I don't know if your africans can survive this process. If you have friends with fish, try getting some of their gravel and dirty water, put this in your tank and it will speed things up. You might want to take your africans back to the store, get a dozen white clouds (hard to kill with bad water), wait a month and then get your africans back (the white clouds then become food)...
You have a bigger tank, you'll need it.
Good luck. :3
 
GolemGolem;4725858; said:
Okie, Here's the thing, the reason your nitrate is 0 is because your tank hasn't cycled. The toxic ammonia has to go up, so that there is stuff for the good bacteria to eat. Then you will have toxic Nitrite which also has to get pretty high, then more good bacteria come to the party and turn the nasty nitrite into less nasty nitrate. Once you have Nitrate your tank is cycled. Waterchanges slow or stop this from happening. (I did it too, it took my first 3 months because I was new and dumber)
I don't know if your africans can survive this process. If you have friends with fish, try getting some of their gravel and dirty water, put this in your tank and it will speed things up. You might want to take your africans back to the store, get a dozen white clouds (hard to kill with bad water), wait a month and then get your africans back (the white clouds then become food)...
You have a bigger tank, you'll need it.
Good luck. :3


But my tank HAD cycled. It's been up and running since June, and the Nitrate levels were averaging just below 40ppm like they were supposed to, and then all of a sudden the Nitrate levels started dropping to zero and haven't come back up yet? So what you're saying is even though the tank HAD cycled and the fish were okay for 6 mths or so, all of a sudden the tank can lose it's cycling process?
 
That is weird, but 0 nitrate means that.... Use any antibiotics, or chems other than the prime? Replace the filter? Maybe some one with more exp. than me will think of something...I would see about getting some dirty gravel from a healthy tank still.
 
Did you use any water treatments or excessive salt which may have killed off your BB?
E-Mycin, Prazi-Pro, Marine Salt?
Anything?
 
Jayzao;4726035; said:
Did you use any water treatments or excessive salt which may have killed off your BB?
E-Mycin, Prazi-Pro, Marine Salt?
Anything?

Only thing I used was Aquarium salt with the water changes?
So since my 125 isn't near ready yet, should I try some of the store bought ready bacteria to kick start the cycle back up?
 
It doesn't make much sense that your levels would become so off after the tank had been cycled. I agree that you should get some water and/or gravel from someone you know with a tank that doesn't have any recent issues.
 
FlorabamaTrigger;4726148; said:
Only thing I used was Aquarium salt with the water changes?
So since my 125 isn't near ready yet, should I try some of the store bought ready bacteria to kick start the cycle back up?
The store bought stuff all tends to be dead (cept for the expensive stuff in the fridge), which just produces amonia, which you have. Dirty tank water and gravel is free, bag it up like it was a fish and just drop it in your tank, good handful of gravel and a few cups of water should do. If you don't have friends with tanks you can get it a little riskier from the LFS, get it from the discus tank, they drop like expensive flies if the water sucks. Should be free if you buy some food or something else while there.
 
GolemGolem;4726249; said:
The store bought stuff all tends to be dead (cept for the expensive stuff in the fridge), which just produces amonia, which you have. Dirty tank water and gravel is free, bag it up like it was a fish and just drop it in your tank, good handful of gravel and a few cups of water should do. If you don't have friends with tanks you can get it a little riskier from the LFS, get it from the discus tank, they drop like expensive flies if the water sucks. Should be free if you buy some food or something else while there.

So you're saying go ahead and put everything from my 29g into my 125g even though the 125 isn't done cycling?

I was planning on going by my LFS store on Friday, (they're only open Fri-Sun), and looking again at some of their more expensive bacteria-in-a-bottle stuff they tried to sell me last week to get my tank cycling. It was the stuff in the fridge you are talking about I'm assuming. Oh well, the little guys have lasted this long with ZERO Nitrates and Nitrites, I guess a few more days won't hurt em..... I hope...
 
Here's another dumb question. But if I have alive fish currently in the tank, and ammonia being produced, is it possible the Nitrate levels will start coming back up normally soon, or is this a case to where I need to add something for it TO ever come back?
 
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