A "Seller's" view on this hobby.........
I'm in a combative mood today...... big surprise LOL. Ok i'm going to put myself out there representing the "sellers" or people in the "industry" yet i'm probably going to stand alone in this debate against all you hobbyist....... I like the odds.......
A breif history on my experience........ I started out in the hobby as a hobbyist 16years ago.......... from spending hours in a LFS i finally convinced the owner to give me a job so i could get payed for doing what i loved to do the most...... $15 dollars a day....... 10hour a day was my pay....... if that wasnt love for the hobby i don't know what is. I spent the next 10 years working for different LFS and have spent the last 6 in the "wholesale" or "importer" part of the industry...... Learning what i could from each and getting bored and moving on to another "challenge"....... During this time i always kept many different fishtanks....... from aggressive predatory fish to community, plant tanks, SW fish, Reef, rare and super rare fish etc......... I used to have a Burgess fish atlas and highlighted all the "rare" fish that i found interesting and wanted to keep or see in the hobby........ that book literally had hundreds of markings. As the years went by that list got smaller and smaller........ many times adding fish not even listed in any literature....... but I will always consider myself a student of the hobby..... my biggest fear is stop finding things that interest me........
Now i want to address some of the "views" of industy people...... we are not "cruel" , "money hungry", "ignorant", people out to just make a buck....... Well I cannot speak for everyone but I can express the view for the majority of the the people in the "business" I'm going to address several issues that errk me........ Dyed or Tattoed fish, Captive Bred fish and hybrids, Chainstores (petco) etc..........
Lets start with the most debateble issue............ "Dyed or Tatooed or"............ First and foremost I want to make it clear that I do not like these type of fish and if i could control the world economy or "human nature" they would not exist........... But they do...... and here is why they do........ Imagine living in a 3rd world country..... few jobs available..... and the ones that are available have thousands of people who are willing to do the same job for much less pay......... ( side note....... here in the US we live in the only country where the "lower class" are able to be "overweight" have cable TV and buy lottery tickets to excape from complaining why things are not fair)...... but in South America, Asia, Africa, its a far different story...... Anyways...... one day someone came up with what he thought was a brilliant idea........ using the few resources he has available to him. He realised he can imporve the "look" of fish by artifical means....... it worked! he created interest...... a new market......... Obviously people took to it as well........ "instant gratification" no longer you had to breed fish through many generations and feed expensive color enhancing foods to acheive a "eye catching" fish....... more importantly it was done at very low costs......... This man or people can now afford to have "meat" for supper or "super size" their value meal.........
We now move on to the "importer and sellers"........... Perhaps they are not as bad off as the breeders or collectors in the 3rd world country but how many "fish industry people" do you know who drive around im luxury automobiles..... Does that give them the right to support such acts? its like someone saying " I sold drugs to support my family" or " i'm a prostitute to put me through college"....... where are the human morals? If they didnt offer them then people would ask for them or even know they exist........ Right?...... I can tell you I do not know one person in the "industry" who likes such fish........ yet its really like "crying over spilled milk"....... they do exist...... much like cigarettes....... everyone knows its bad but they are not going to become "Unavailable" anytime soon....... Imagine this scenario........ if the majority of suppliers removed these fish from their lists........ what would that do?...... It would create and new market........ over night....... tatooed gouramy's would become "rare".......... much like proabition........ it is "Human Nature" to want what they cannot get......... how many of you wanted a snakehead after they became prohibited?....... who would pay for a "name brand" eventhough you know its the same quality as the lesser brand? So am I shifting blame to the hobbyist? No........ I'm blaming human nature....... I can tell you for a "fact" not one importer calls overseas and says "can you dye or tatoo something new because it make me alot of money"............ just look at the percentage of dyed fish compared to natural fish that you see at LFS....... that should tell you the size of that market....... all one can do in my position is to keep it to a minimum..... i cannot stop it completely......
Ok let move on......... "Captive Bred vs Wild Caught".......... Is there one i prefer to sell over the other if all things equal? the answer is NO......... I hear all the time....... those fish are "human made" unnatural....... I can say over 50% of fish in the industry are now "captive"....... why....... simple..... its due to the costs and "surviveability" of CB fish......... what was your first monster fish? mine much like many was a Oscar....... which i learned many years later was CB in Asia........ did it make a difference to me back then? No...... it was all i could afford........ if the price wasnt sutible for a 12yr old perhaps i wouldnt of developed interest in "Monster fish"....... and strived to learn more about them........ perhaps i would of spent that money on baseball cards or video games and I wouldnt be here on this board learning daily......... What really gets me is the same people who argue against dyed fish are the same people to prefer F1 fish........ which is bad for the enviorment.......... so am i saying we should stop collecting from the wild? HELL NO...... that would put a complete stop to the advancement of the hobby........ but i'm not going to complain about a industry that brought me so much joy in the past 16 years........... What about hybrids...... Eww...... they are Unatural...... ugly........ god never intended for them to exist.......... well....... did god make Coca Cola? no he made water........ did god make automobiles...... no he made horses........ did god make clothing? no he made leaves and branches......... but this is different you say..... because we are dealing with "Live" animals....... its not our place to mess with nature........ especially when its just to make a buck...... ( for the answer to that please refer to the "Dyed or Tatooed or Hybrid fish" paragraph........ Let me ask you this........ would you buy a fish with the head of a arowana, the teeth of a payara, the additude of a red devil....... and the hardiness.......... of a betta......... its funny how quick people would change their views on a subject when it affects their personal interests......... for instance....... I used to get flamed for posting pics of tatooed hybrid fish........ then last year a new "I LUV U" parrot fish came on the market......... funny many people who were against "tatooed and hybrids" were all of a sudden interested in this particular fish because their mom or girlfriend may like it....... haha hypocrisy is in all of us...........
Last but not least....... the Chain store debate......... "their fish are crap....... sick....... no selection..... employees know nothing".......... again I offer you another perspective.......... how many people get started in this hobby because of such stores each year?........ the answer is thousands....... hundereds of thousands........ From bettas to those cheap 10gallon starter kits which are made affordable due to the high volume these stores buy........... how many new hobbyist get their first taste of the "fish keeping bug" because of this?........ you may say many of these people don't even stay in the hobby and don't really care about keeping fish seriously........ there fore i don't care to have them in the hobby because they would never make any true contribution to the advancement of the fish keeping...... unlike us "true hardcore hobbyist"......... well look a the ripple affect from loosing this market......... simple economics....... less people buying fish = less money in industry = less people in industry = less inovation = fish more expensive = less selection = oscars and red devils as monster fish........... its a chain reaction..........
Ok i'm tired now....... perhaps i made some good points........ perhaps not........ i wrote this off the top of my head for over a hour n half.......... please express your thoughts........ and lets not make let this get too ugly so that the mods will close this thread...........
br
Oddballer..............
I'm in a combative mood today...... big surprise LOL. Ok i'm going to put myself out there representing the "sellers" or people in the "industry" yet i'm probably going to stand alone in this debate against all you hobbyist....... I like the odds.......
A breif history on my experience........ I started out in the hobby as a hobbyist 16years ago.......... from spending hours in a LFS i finally convinced the owner to give me a job so i could get payed for doing what i loved to do the most...... $15 dollars a day....... 10hour a day was my pay....... if that wasnt love for the hobby i don't know what is. I spent the next 10 years working for different LFS and have spent the last 6 in the "wholesale" or "importer" part of the industry...... Learning what i could from each and getting bored and moving on to another "challenge"....... During this time i always kept many different fishtanks....... from aggressive predatory fish to community, plant tanks, SW fish, Reef, rare and super rare fish etc......... I used to have a Burgess fish atlas and highlighted all the "rare" fish that i found interesting and wanted to keep or see in the hobby........ that book literally had hundreds of markings. As the years went by that list got smaller and smaller........ many times adding fish not even listed in any literature....... but I will always consider myself a student of the hobby..... my biggest fear is stop finding things that interest me........
Now i want to address some of the "views" of industy people...... we are not "cruel" , "money hungry", "ignorant", people out to just make a buck....... Well I cannot speak for everyone but I can express the view for the majority of the the people in the "business" I'm going to address several issues that errk me........ Dyed or Tattoed fish, Captive Bred fish and hybrids, Chainstores (petco) etc..........
Lets start with the most debateble issue............ "Dyed or Tatooed or"............ First and foremost I want to make it clear that I do not like these type of fish and if i could control the world economy or "human nature" they would not exist........... But they do...... and here is why they do........ Imagine living in a 3rd world country..... few jobs available..... and the ones that are available have thousands of people who are willing to do the same job for much less pay......... ( side note....... here in the US we live in the only country where the "lower class" are able to be "overweight" have cable TV and buy lottery tickets to excape from complaining why things are not fair)...... but in South America, Asia, Africa, its a far different story...... Anyways...... one day someone came up with what he thought was a brilliant idea........ using the few resources he has available to him. He realised he can imporve the "look" of fish by artifical means....... it worked! he created interest...... a new market......... Obviously people took to it as well........ "instant gratification" no longer you had to breed fish through many generations and feed expensive color enhancing foods to acheive a "eye catching" fish....... more importantly it was done at very low costs......... This man or people can now afford to have "meat" for supper or "super size" their value meal.........
We now move on to the "importer and sellers"........... Perhaps they are not as bad off as the breeders or collectors in the 3rd world country but how many "fish industry people" do you know who drive around im luxury automobiles..... Does that give them the right to support such acts? its like someone saying " I sold drugs to support my family" or " i'm a prostitute to put me through college"....... where are the human morals? If they didnt offer them then people would ask for them or even know they exist........ Right?...... I can tell you I do not know one person in the "industry" who likes such fish........ yet its really like "crying over spilled milk"....... they do exist...... much like cigarettes....... everyone knows its bad but they are not going to become "Unavailable" anytime soon....... Imagine this scenario........ if the majority of suppliers removed these fish from their lists........ what would that do?...... It would create and new market........ over night....... tatooed gouramy's would become "rare".......... much like proabition........ it is "Human Nature" to want what they cannot get......... how many of you wanted a snakehead after they became prohibited?....... who would pay for a "name brand" eventhough you know its the same quality as the lesser brand? So am I shifting blame to the hobbyist? No........ I'm blaming human nature....... I can tell you for a "fact" not one importer calls overseas and says "can you dye or tatoo something new because it make me alot of money"............ just look at the percentage of dyed fish compared to natural fish that you see at LFS....... that should tell you the size of that market....... all one can do in my position is to keep it to a minimum..... i cannot stop it completely......
Ok let move on......... "Captive Bred vs Wild Caught".......... Is there one i prefer to sell over the other if all things equal? the answer is NO......... I hear all the time....... those fish are "human made" unnatural....... I can say over 50% of fish in the industry are now "captive"....... why....... simple..... its due to the costs and "surviveability" of CB fish......... what was your first monster fish? mine much like many was a Oscar....... which i learned many years later was CB in Asia........ did it make a difference to me back then? No...... it was all i could afford........ if the price wasnt sutible for a 12yr old perhaps i wouldnt of developed interest in "Monster fish"....... and strived to learn more about them........ perhaps i would of spent that money on baseball cards or video games and I wouldnt be here on this board learning daily......... What really gets me is the same people who argue against dyed fish are the same people to prefer F1 fish........ which is bad for the enviorment.......... so am i saying we should stop collecting from the wild? HELL NO...... that would put a complete stop to the advancement of the hobby........ but i'm not going to complain about a industry that brought me so much joy in the past 16 years........... What about hybrids...... Eww...... they are Unatural...... ugly........ god never intended for them to exist.......... well....... did god make Coca Cola? no he made water........ did god make automobiles...... no he made horses........ did god make clothing? no he made leaves and branches......... but this is different you say..... because we are dealing with "Live" animals....... its not our place to mess with nature........ especially when its just to make a buck...... ( for the answer to that please refer to the "Dyed or Tatooed or Hybrid fish" paragraph........ Let me ask you this........ would you buy a fish with the head of a arowana, the teeth of a payara, the additude of a red devil....... and the hardiness.......... of a betta......... its funny how quick people would change their views on a subject when it affects their personal interests......... for instance....... I used to get flamed for posting pics of tatooed hybrid fish........ then last year a new "I LUV U" parrot fish came on the market......... funny many people who were against "tatooed and hybrids" were all of a sudden interested in this particular fish because their mom or girlfriend may like it....... haha hypocrisy is in all of us...........
Last but not least....... the Chain store debate......... "their fish are crap....... sick....... no selection..... employees know nothing".......... again I offer you another perspective.......... how many people get started in this hobby because of such stores each year?........ the answer is thousands....... hundereds of thousands........ From bettas to those cheap 10gallon starter kits which are made affordable due to the high volume these stores buy........... how many new hobbyist get their first taste of the "fish keeping bug" because of this?........ you may say many of these people don't even stay in the hobby and don't really care about keeping fish seriously........ there fore i don't care to have them in the hobby because they would never make any true contribution to the advancement of the fish keeping...... unlike us "true hardcore hobbyist"......... well look a the ripple affect from loosing this market......... simple economics....... less people buying fish = less money in industry = less people in industry = less inovation = fish more expensive = less selection = oscars and red devils as monster fish........... its a chain reaction..........
Ok i'm tired now....... perhaps i made some good points........ perhaps not........ i wrote this off the top of my head for over a hour n half.......... please express your thoughts........ and lets not make let this get too ugly so that the mods will close this thread...........
br
Oddballer..............
...