Above ground pond setup (work in progress)

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fishrule84

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Sep 10, 2010
7
0
31
Louisiana, USA
Hi all,
Here are some pics of a pond project I have going. It's far from ideal but I am working on some improvements and any constructive criticism is welcomed and appreciated.
It's an old sugar kettle made of cast iron, and so far I have not set up any filtration for it. I do have two 30-60 gallon aerator pumps, which I realize are not sufficient, but I am working on getting a more suitable replacement. The kettle is roughly 3 feet deep at the center with a 39 inch inner radius, and I figure it holds around 538 gallons.

Right now there about 7 to 9 Comets, at least 10 mosquito fish, some small crawfish (crayfish) (possibly 1 big one), and 2 Red-eared Slider turtles (recent additions) living in it. I do have two pieces of firewood floating in it, which the turtles use for basking. Also there is some vegetation in there, hydrilla and possibly a water lilly I think but I'm not sure. There is algae but the fish seem to keep that at least somewhat under control. I'm seriously considering some type of filter to clear the water up though. On a sunny day there is usually some clarity, but no view of the bottom or anything like that.

I keep a barrel near it to collect extra water, and will probably make a hand pump soon to transfer water when necessary. I'm also trying to work up some type of heat exchanger (if that is the right term) made out of tubing or pvc pipe to circulate the water through the ground and back into the kettle, all done with a submersible pump (in the kettle) most likely. I was thinking of having it reach 2 to 3 feet into the ground and be around 4 to 5 feet long, and it would run parallel to the kettle. I don't have a sketch but will try to make one up to post later. I'm thinking about adding a valve to to it pump water into the barrel when I need to bring the level down a bit due to rainfall, and I was thinking of incorporating a UV and/or bio filter into the "system" as well.

So, I think that covers most if not all of the details. Any thoughts/suggestions/constructive critisms are welcomed. What do y'all think?:D


-Matt
P.S. I took the pics below this morning. Lately the water hasn't been as clear as it has been in the past.

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I like it.. blends in with the backyard.. not overwhelming.. Where did you find the sugar kettle??

Will the cast iron create any possible problems in the future for the fish??
 
Thanks fishmamma, I've enjoyed tinkering with it so far, and I think it has some potential to be a nice little pond one day. We've had the kettle for probably around 10 years or so now...actually probably a little more than that. It came from my dad's parents. They had it on their property and had put some goldfish in it at one point I think. My grandmother may have had flowers around it for a while too. My grandfather used to work at the sugar mill, so I'm thinking that's how they got it, but I'll ask him the next time I talk to him.
The only problem that I know of that would be bad for the fish is that it will eventually rust out. It is showing rust now, so I'd like to maybe drain it, clean it up, and repaint the inside to protect it. That doesn't need to be done right away, but it wouldn't hurt to do it asap. It really should be on a concrete base, but right now we just have it sitting on the ground, and the center part of the bottom is in a bit of a hole from what I've seen. I've heard of people sinking them into the ground at least partially to make garden ponds with fountains and such. A family we know had one like that mounted in a patio area and it looked nice. I've seen websites that sell fiberglass kettles now, which would probably make a better pond thank the cast iron ones. I think you can still get cast iron sugar kettles though.
I've been wanting to improve this one here and there, but I think now I'd like to fix it up as sort of a welcome home gift for my parents. My dad has been in the hospital since the beginning of February, and my mom has been staying with him. I'm most likely moving to Galveston in August, so I thought it could be fun to get a nice pond going for them.
Anyway, thanks again for viewing and for the kind words. I'll update with more pictures and information as it develops.
 
you could make some sponge folters or something and hide them under the mat of plants you have in the center....
 
I hadn't thought about that, thanks. I may give it a try, but I'm not sure if the turtles would tear up the sponges or not. I found a site with a cool diy bio-filter setup that I might try. Now I just have to find a pump that will move at least 270 gph with 6 ft of head. I say 6 feet of head, but there may be more. I haven't really done calculations yet, and that doesn't count the coil of tubing I'd like to try burying as a heat exchanger.
Right now I'm thinking about having the pump run the water up out of the pond, down into the ground, through a coil, and then up into the uv/bio-filter which would overflow back into the kettle. I think it could possibly work if I can find the right pump.
 
Attached is a sketch of what I'm thinking of doing for this setup. I haven't figured out if it could all work well yet, but I figured I'd post it to see what you all think.

My idea is to have the pump in a box or basket at the bottom of the kettle. The basket would act as a mechanical filter. The pump would connect to tubing running up the side and out of the kettle, through a 25 watt uv sterilizer, into the ground and coiled as a sort of heat exchanger, then up into the bio filter, then have the water flow into the kettle through a 1 inch wide (maybe bigger) piece of either pvc or tubing near the top of the filter.

I haven't really calculated head yet, so I don't know if the pump I have in mind can manage. I would like to be able to cycle the entire capacity (about 538 gallons) every hour or at least every 2 hours, so I am thinking of going with a 1200 GPH pump. According to the site I found it on, it can manage 600 GPH at 10 ft of head, which I'm thinking might be around what I end up with. I may have to go smaller because I'm not sure if it would overflow my bio-filter or not. I might just try it and work up some kind of overflow prevention if I have to.

I would like to have the bio-filter on a stand so that I can drain and flush the muck out of the bottom of it easily. The filter I'm basing it off of is in a 55 gallon drum, but I'm thinking of using a 44 gallon outdoor trash can if it won't be too much trouble to seal off any holes that might be in it.

One thing I'm really wondering about is whether or not it's even worth running tubing into the ground to try and maintain a better water temperature year round. I was thinking of doing so because the "pond" is a above ground and doesn't have the soil insulating it like a normal pond. I'm not sure what the water temperature is at the moment, but will be testing it as soon as the aquarium thermometer arrives. Anyone have any thoughts / experience on this part?

I also have an aerator in mind that should work ok, but I might not add it in right away.

Anyway, I think that's about it as far as the concept goes. I'm still working on how to power it all (pump, uv, and an aerator), and for now I'm thinking of running a few extension cords from an outlet on the porch. Eventually I'd like to put a protected outlet right by the kettle.

I'll probably be draining the kettle to repaint it with epoxy or appliance paint at some point in the next few months, because it is showing rust on the inside, as it is made of cast iron, which I've heard can be a problem for the fish.

Here are links to what I'm looking at making or using.
Pump:
http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.995/.f?sc=2&category=566

UV Sterilizer:
http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Supplies/Aqua-Ultraviolet-UV-Sterilizers/25-Watt-Aqua-UV

Filter in kettle (but I'd like to make something strictly mechanical)
http://www.mvwgs.org/filter.htm

Bio-filter:
http://drdaveskoi.tripod.com/html/doc_bio_filter.html

Aerator:
http://www.lochnesswatergardens.com/Pond_Aerators_p/pond_aerator.htm?1=1&CartID=0

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give.:headbang2

Pond sketch.jpg
 
Good start. Hope pops feels better soon.

If you are going to drain it to paint, I would take it to a spray-in bed liner company to paint. There is a woman on AC that had a galvanised tank sprayed with bed liner and it looks good, seals all seams and leaks, and is tough as he*l. I would only spray the inside since the outside has a good look. I would also suggest that where the kettle meets the soil, excavte a few inches of soil and replace with a decent sized gravel for drainage. I would think the moisture in contact w/the kettle might cause some damage and the gravel will allow for it to be leveled easily.

I would ditch the mechanical filter in the bottom of the pond. You can have all your mechanical in the drum filter. With a filter in that spot, it looks like it would be hard to maintain. A good pre-filter on the inlet will keep big debris out and small particulates could settle in the drum and be flushed out the drain.

Get the biggest pump you can afford, 2X per hour turnover is good and not over doing it. The fish won't mine the flow and it could eliminate the need for the additional areation.
 
Thanks Muske, he is doing better and as long as he continues to improve, we think he could possibly return home in a few weeks.
I was thinking of painting the inside, and maybe even touching up the outside just to protect it, but lately I've been thinking of putting in a liner instead. Thanks for the spray-on liner idea though. I'll probably call and get a quote from the local dealer, but I don't really have an easy way to get it to them. Still, it's something to consider.
A coworker suggested some thick visqueen, and I found some that might work on homedepot.com for around $20 or so, but for around the same price I also found a site (http://www.billboardtarps.com/) that carries billboard tarps in several sizes, so I may go with one of those instead.
Thanks, I had thought about putting something under the kettle to better protect against rust, but I don't have an easy way to lift it. I was thinking about trying to dig out one section at a time and fill it with pea gravel. Do you think that would provide enough drainage?
Yeah I think I should be able to put some filter material like matala mat on top of the bio media, so I may work that into the setup as I build it. The only reason I was thinking of putting a filter in the pond was to keep particulates from getting into the uv that I was thinking of installing between the pump and the bio filter. The pumps I'm looking at all have pre-filters though, so it could be worth a shot to try it without the in pond filter.
I'm also thinking about putting pea gravel at the bottom of the kettle as a substrate and to help keep the liner in place. I've read that Red-eared Sliders need a substrate to brumate in, but I'd rather not put dirt in the bottom if I can help it.
Thanks again for the advice. I'll post updates as things develop.
 
the pea gravel will eventually turn into dirt with pea gravel in it, between all the detris and leaves and other matter that gets in there and sinks itll turn into dirt. I had pea gravel in my pond and now the bottoms all dirt. i like it though and its full of all sorts of good bacteria, and all sorts of tiny red worms, as a matter of fact, it filters the water enough that i can shut my filter off completely during winter and turn the waterfall off and as long as i have a heater to keep a hole in the top of the ice so gases can escape, the pond, and fish are fine all winter
 
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